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AirforceTrojan
01-04-2014, 03:24 PM
Watching the FCS Title Game today, you can't help but wonder sometimes if we'd be better off as a powerhouse FCS team. North Dakota State sold out the FCS Champ Game in August and has bought up all the tix for the next three years worth of championship games, they beat K-State (and have beaten an FBS opponent the last four years running) and are going for their third NC in a row today. There is more excitement watching this game than almost any Little Caesars/BBVA/Advocare/Fill in the blank bowl game with 2/3 of the seats empty I've watched all year.

I know this topic has been beat to death on the board already, so I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. However, how cool would it be if we had been doing what North Dakota State has been doing at the FCS level the last five years while Bama and Auburn are playing for BCS Titles? Talk about the State of Alabama being THE dominant force in college football! Instead, after 10 seasons in FBS, we're still chasing 7-5 and GoDaddy.com every year? I'm not so sure we're better off...

srbtrojan
01-04-2014, 05:58 PM
Get your point but I still STRONGLY agree with the decision to go to FBS. #movingforward

Hemi Man
01-04-2014, 06:01 PM
You will lose a good bit portion of your fan base if you take a step backwards. Absolutely 100% no for me on anything except FBS.

newnan trojan
01-04-2014, 06:14 PM
FBS or bust.

I bet JSU would gladly switch places with us.

AirforceTrojan
01-04-2014, 07:12 PM
We're not gonna have to make a deliberate step "backward". When the Power 5 forms "Division 4" for football, all the remaining FBS schools are gonna become a de facto 1-AA anyway. Conference realignment has been a terrible thing for schools like us, and I dare say if a school like Boise was just making the transition to FBS in this post-conference alignment world, there's no way they would ever make the kind of run they made. Same for UCF. The had the support and the resources to make it happen when the opportunity was there. Sadly, I think that window is now closed and the Power 5 power brokers will see to it that it never opens again for schools like Troy. Ultimately, it's closed for Boise too because they didn't make the leap to a Power 5 conference and the jury is still out on UCF, but with the Orlando media market and a huge BCS bowl win under their belt, they are still in the fight. At least Boise got to have its day in the sun.

The best we can hope for in the future is an expanded 8 or 16-team playoff where a spot is reserved for the highest ranked non-Power 5 school or something like that. However, I don't even see the big boys conceding a playoff spot. I think we'll end up playing for a championship of an entirely different level of football...right back where we were in 1993. And as you can tell from my post that started this thread, I think that might be a good thing. Celebrating championships is a lot more fun than celebrating 7-6 seasons with a win over a CDOA or Rustbelt opponent every third year or so...

Navarre Trojan
01-04-2014, 08:48 PM
We're not gonna have to make a deliberate step "backward". When the Power 5 forms "Division 4" for football, all the remaining FBS schools are gonna become a de facto 1-AA anyway. Conference realignment has been a terrible thing for schools like us, and I dare say if a school like Boise was just making the transition to FBS in this post-conference alignment world, there's no way they would ever make the kind of run they made. Same for UCF. The had the support and the resources to make it happen when the opportunity was there. Sadly, I think that window is now closed and the Power 5 power brokers will see to it that it never opens again for schools like Troy. Ultimately, it's closed for Boise too because they didn't make the leap to a Power 5 conference and the jury is still out on UCF, but with the Orlando media market and a huge BCS bowl win under their belt, they are still in the fight. At least Boise got to have its day in the sun.

The best we can hope for in the future is an expanded 8 or 16-team playoff where a spot is reserved for the highest ranked non-Power 5 school or something like that. However, I don't even see the big boys conceding a playoff spot. I think we'll end up playing for a championship of an entirely different level of football...right back where we were in 1993. And as you can tell from my post that started this thread, I think that might be a good thing. Celebrating championships is a lot more fun than celebrating 7-6 seasons with a win over a CDOA or Rustbelt opponent every third year or so...

I believe as long as the college presdents and the NCAA are n charge, you willnot see the move you speak of. In the early 80s several BIG TIME schools started the CFA AND IT JUST DIED ON THE VINE. The problem with your scenareo, IMO, is that is way to narrow in focus, t can't be JUST FOOTBALL when you "change" how tnngs are done in college athletics. With the football team you also have to take the golf, tennis, and bowlng team. Hard to do with your model.

Navarre Trojan
01-04-2014, 08:49 PM
We're not gonna have to make a deliberate step "backward". When the Power 5 forms "Division 4" for football, all the remaining FBS schools are gonna become a de facto 1-AA anyway. Conference realignment has been a terrible thing for schools like us, and I dare say if a school like Boise was just making the transition to FBS in this post-conference alignment world, there's no way they would ever make the kind of run they made. Same for UCF. The had the support and the resources to make it happen when the opportunity was there. Sadly, I think that window is now closed and the Power 5 power brokers will see to it that it never opens again for schools like Troy. Ultimately, it's closed for Boise too because they didn't make the leap to a Power 5 conference and the jury is still out on UCF, but with the Orlando media market and a huge BCS bowl win under their belt, they are still in the fight. At least Boise got to have its day in the sun.

The best we can hope for in the future is an expanded 8 or 16-team playoff where a spot is reserved for the highest ranked non-Power 5 school or something like that. However, I don't even see the big boys conceding a playoff spot. I think we'll end up playing for a championship of an entirely different level of football...right back where we were in 1993. And as you can tell from my post that started this thread, I think that might be a good thing. Celebrating championships is a lot more fun than celebrating 7-6 seasons with a win over a CDOA or Rustbelt opponent every third year or so...

I believe as long as the college presdents and the NCAA are in charge, you willnot see the move you speak of. In the early 80s several BIG TIME schools started the CFA AND IT JUST DIED ON THE VINE. The problem with your scenareo, IMO, is that is way to narrow in focus, it can't be JUST FOOTBALL when you "change" how things are done in college athletics. With the football team you also have to take the golf, tennis, and bowlng team. Hard to do with your model.

AirforceTrojan
01-04-2014, 10:44 PM
I believe as long as the college presdents and the NCAA are in charge, you willnot see the move you speak of. In the early 80s several BIG TIME schools started the CFA AND IT JUST DIED ON THE VINE. The problem with your scenareo, IMO, is that is way to narrow in focus, it can't be JUST FOOTBALL when you "change" how things are done in college athletics. With the football team you also have to take the golf, tennis, and bowlng team. Hard to do with your model.

Football has always been treated separately from all the other sports. That's the whole reason 1-AA existed in the first place--every other athletic team of 1-AA football schools was full-fledged D1. Of course now 1-AA is FCS and there is no "FCS" classification for any sport except football (yes, I know the F stands for football, but you know what I mean--I.e. there's no "VCS" for volleyball). Also, the BCS operates outside the boundaries of the NCAA Championship System and produces the only collegiate sports champion not formally recognized by the NCAA. So, yeah, football has and will continue to be carved out of the rest of the athletic department and treated as its own program. Lastly, the Division 4 "model" that you attribute to me above is not my creation. It's been discussed in great detail and, if I were a betting man, I'd give 70/30 odds to it becoming a reality in the future.

SoFlaTrojan
01-05-2014, 10:14 PM
Without I-A football, Troy would still have that sorry old stadium, would still be playing hoops in Sartain Hall, many of the new campus buildings would still be dreams and the enrollment would still be around 3,900.

And, being successful and going to the playoffs in D-II and FCS means losing money. It always has.

BeachTrojan
01-06-2014, 12:54 AM
What is enrollment now (in Troy, AL - not Troy, Cario, Egypt)?

dgoebel
01-06-2014, 09:25 AM
what is enrollment now (in troy, al - not troy, cario, egypt)?

7,200

Troy79
01-06-2014, 01:47 PM
Without I-A football, Troy would still have that sorry old stadium, would still be playing hoops in Sartain Hall, many of the new campus buildings would still be dreams and the enrollment would still be around 3,900.

And, being successful and going to the playoffs in D-II and FCS means losing money. It always has.

Totally agree with the way the campus would look today had we remained 1-AA. The city of Troy would also not have the number of hotels and eateries in town if we had never made the jump to D-1.

Go TROY!

Possum
01-06-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree...

But, I believe we are on the verge of a huge leap forward in athletics...

The future is bright for the Trojan Empire

Trojans1andAll
01-06-2014, 07:07 PM
I agree...

But, I believe we are on the verge of a huge leap forward in athletics...

The future is bright for the Trojan Empire

I also agree, this is only a rough spot that is going to make sports and the university stronger. The Trojan Nation is only bickering about how and how soon.

TFan
01-07-2014, 12:25 AM
Honeymoon is over folks, winning is goal #1. Supporting it here. :thumb:

BDM88
01-08-2014, 01:18 AM
I posted a link some time ago about the same thing AirforceTrojan talked about. And to be honest someone at Troy is on the council that basically approved the new level in the near future for Non Big 6 conference members. I understand how some of you do not want to go back but in the end we may not have a choice. Now I like seeing us play the Big Boys but cant help but think if we were playing the teams more suited for our Money level we could be dominating like NDSU in FCS right now. But know we will not go back unless forced to. Which As I said may be sooner rather than later.

Hemi Man
01-08-2014, 08:56 AM
Think small time and you will always be small time. Dream of being a big fish in a little pond or aiming to be the best you can be at the highest level possible?

Thirteen years in FBS with five bowl games during that span. Nine years in the Sun Belt with five conference championships. I say we stay the course. The foundation for Troy's FBS life is barely completed.

Troy79
01-08-2014, 01:50 PM
Think small time and you will always be small time. Dream of being a big fish in a little pond or aiming to be the best you can be at the highest level possible?

Thirteen years in FBS with five bowl games during that span. Nine years in the Sun Belt with five conference championships. I say we stay the course. The foundation for Troy's FBS life is barely completed.

Totally agree Hemi, most every team in D-1 could have only dreamed about those kind of stats during their first decade as a member.

Remember guys, if the Big conferences ever do want to branch away and create 4 or 5 Super Conferences, that would still leave approximately 60 teams that would be in the same category as us so that in itself would be a competative 'division'. The big boys will always need teams like Troy to schedule for OOC games so I think we will be safe, even if there is some type of resturcture in the future.

Go TROY!

dgoebel
01-08-2014, 05:18 PM
Think small time and you will always be small time. Dream of being a big fish in a little pond or aiming to be the best you can be at the highest level possible?

Thirteen years in FBS with five bowl games during that span. Nine years in the Sun Belt with five conference championships. I say we stay the course. The foundation for Troy's FBS life is barely completed.

It is not going to be easy going forward for sure. The fact is we are a DII school in a DII town with a FCS budget playing FBS football. We can compete but it will take every resource we have and then some to overcome the huge monetary disadvantage we have. Got to expand the TW campaign and alumni connections. Onward and upward, Go Troy!!!!

Hemi Man
01-08-2014, 05:23 PM
It is not going to be easy going forward for sure. The fact is we are a DII school in a DII town with a FCS budget playing FBS football. We can compete but it will take every resource we have and then some to overcome the huge monetary disadvantage we have. Got to expand the TW campaign and alumni connections. Onward and upward, Go Troy!!!!

I hear some good things are coming in that area. Everyone has to buy in and support the program in all aspects for it to succeed!!

trojanbrutha
01-08-2014, 05:54 PM
I hear some good things are coming in that area. Everyone has to buy in and support the program in all aspects for it to succeed!!

When you have people that refer to TROY as a DII school, the myth continues to be perpetuated...

dgoebel
01-09-2014, 07:35 AM
When you have people that refer to TROY as a DII school, the myth continues to be perpetuated...

Not saying that derogatory, it was D11 when I played. I was referring to the size of the school and town which fits what most D11 are. Onward and upward, looking forward to the ride.

Hemi Man
01-09-2014, 09:01 AM
Not saying that derogatory, it was D11 when I played. I was referring to the size of the school and town which fits what most D11 are. Onward and upward, looking forward to the ride.

I don't believe population has to be a drawback. It isn't a drawback for Oxford, MS, Starkville, MS, or Clemson SC. We do have at best half the enrollment of those schools. Selling Troy to the locals is imperative. The Wiregrass area had to belong to Troy. I believe John has started that movement. Second we must cultivate the current, and those that attended Troy during the FBS era to be diehard Trojans. Troy has done well during the first 13 years of FBS. We are in a marathon not a sprint. Attendance and interest has grown since the move 13 years ago.

dgoebel
01-09-2014, 11:16 AM
I don't believe population has to be a drawback. It isn't a drawback for Oxford, MS, Starkville, MS, or Clemson SC. We do have at best half the enrollment of those schools. Selling Troy to the locals is imperative. The Wiregrass area had to belong to Troy. I believe John has started that movement. Second we must cultivate the current, and those that attended Troy during the FBS era to be diehard Trojans. Troy has done well during the first 13 years of FBS. We are in a marathon not a sprint. Attendance and interest has grown since the move 13 years ago.

I agree with your thoughts but would like to add the importance also of reaching out to the Alumni that attended during the NAIA, DII, and early 90's 1-AA days. Very important to get these people involved and excited about where Troy is. They are also more economically well off than recent grads. I got a Alumni and his wife here who graduated in 1965 to attend the Navy Game in 2012. Got them re-excited about Troy and they are planning on attending the Duke game next season.

The population does hurt us. Hard to compare us to Ole Miss and MSU or Clemson, but I understand the point. We have to get back to dominating the Sun Belt and showing we can compete in sports other than Football, Baseball if we have any thoughts of moving to another conference. We can't just do it off TV market like MTSU, FAU, FIU, and UNT did. We have to do it on the field and court.

Hemi Man
01-09-2014, 12:12 PM
I agree with your thoughts but would like to add the importance also of reaching out to the Alumni that attended during the NAIA, DII, and early 90's 1-AA days. Very important to get these people involved and excited about where Troy is. They are also more economically well off than recent grads. I got a Alumni and his wife here who graduated in 1965 to attend the Navy Game in 2012. Got them re-excited about Troy and they are planning on attending the Duke game next season.

The population does hurt us. Hard to compare us to Ole Miss and MSU or Clemson, but I understand the point. We have to get back to dominating the Sun Belt and showing we can compete in sports other than Football, Baseball if we have any thoughts of moving to another conference. We can't just do it off TV market like MTSU, FAU, FIU, and UNT did. We have to do it on the field and court.

No doubt that those people also need to be included, but it's next to impossible to expect the university to reach out to people that have had no contact with the university in 10 plus years. Addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses likely to have changed. That's where current Warriors, fans, and ticket holders have to reach out to those people that they know personally. Those that I mentioned are much easier and likely to pull back in. The ones you mentioned, if they aren't in contact now are most likely involved and dedicated to other things. That's not to say that they can't be swayed to come he though.

3 years from now CUSA will be identical to the Sun Belt. CUSA is strictly market driven at this point, even though Troy outdraws 3 of those schools that left the Sun Belt. Conference realignment isn't about winning, unfortunately.

dgoebel
01-09-2014, 02:05 PM
No doubt that those people also need to be included, but it's next to impossible to expect the university to reach out to people that have had no contact with the university in 10 plus years. Addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses likely to have changed. That's where current Warriors, fans, and ticket holders have to reach out to those people that they know personally. Those that I mentioned are much easier and likely to pull back in. The ones you mentioned, if they aren't in contact now are most likely involved and dedicated to other things. That's not to say that they can't be swayed to come he though.

3 years from now CUSA will be identical to the Sun Belt. CUSA is strictly market driven at this point, even though Troy outdraws 3 of those schools that left the Sun Belt. Conference realignment isn't about winning, unfortunately.

Another reason we have to get the basketball programs turned around. Basketball is the other revenue producing sport besides football. Baseball is also and we can compete in baseball anywhere. Basketball is hurting us right now, especially to other conferences that take it as seriously as football...ie the American Conference, ACC, and C-USA. Not to say we would go to the ACC but basketball is huge and we are lacking there. Hoping for a turnaround but it isn't going to be this season though.

Hector
01-09-2014, 03:52 PM
AirForceTrojan, I respect your opinion, but I am all about FCS. I hate small stages. Nobody cares about FCS.