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Troygrandfather
11-19-2013, 02:22 PM
I have sat back and watch the month of October the games that were on TV , in person at Troy and then one that I missed I watched a replay of. I have to agree with some of you on a lot of things but going back to the basics on defense is a must. I can assure you the players on defense knew or know how to tackle of they would never have gotten a scholarship or looked at by any school even down to D3. I see speed on the opposing bigger schools and being outsized however by even the Sunbelt teams I have seen Troy play. So you have to win when outsized and with someone faster than you with great skills and discipline. Which I think discipline and leadership on the field (probably off too) is a huge part of the fundamental problems. I did see some future bright spots from some Defensive younger players that start and on offense a line that is young from looking at the roster and the backs (QB and Running backs) and receivers on offense the future looks bright and lots of confidence from the freshman and sophomore group. I think if we add the missing components to that with or without a coaching change the future looks bright. Here are my questions and what I have recently heard from a coaching buddy of mine:

1. The building everyone wants to build. While I agree nice facilities bring in recruits, getting them to stay and succeed is greater than a big nice building. Is this building better locker rooms or more empty seats that they will view when playing those hard wet Thursday night games or day after Thanksgiving games that smaller conferences have to take for TV time? Better locker rooms and coaches office, film room, weight room, I would support but empty seats I would not , it will not fix a problem.

2. I was told by a buddy that if you don't come to Troy's football camp in the summer you usually are not looked at. I hope that is not the case and while camps are great, the burden and cost of those are on the parent and/or care giver or player themselves. I hope we are out in Alabama alone hitting every high school and then the southern and northern areas of Georgia. So I hope this is not true.

Just and old guys thoughts for what its worth a question on building and recruiting.

Hemi Man
11-19-2013, 02:32 PM
I can only answer #1. Seating would be suites for the most part.

http://www.troytrojans.com/news/2013/4/20/FB_0420133413.aspx

“Let me caution you by saying this is a rendering, this does not mean it will be the exact finished product,” Hartwell told the crowd Saturday morning. “Recruiting is the lifeblood of our teams and certainly you have got to have the “Wow Factor” if we are going to attract the best student-athletes in this country. This new North End Zone Project is going to give us that “Wow Factor”. When we have potential student-athletes walk on this campus and see that facility they are not going to see any better in Baton Rouge, in Tuscaloosa or in Auburn. This facility is going to be as quality as any program in the country, and we are very excited about that.”

TUTrojan
11-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Thanks for the great comments. I have been thinking a lot about our play on defense... Beyond size/ speed and physical attributes, I really get the sense that we really don't have an understanding of what roles/responsibilities are for positions (and between positions), what reads/keys are, We have no coaches on the field directing trafific, we have very little verbal communications around basic things like ball in the air, and we telegraph our coverage/blitzes...

These aren't the same as being able to tackle or pick a wounded duck floater out of the air- but they sure would help somebody be better positioned to do so.

trojanbrutha
11-19-2013, 02:41 PM
I have sat back and watch the month of October the games that were on TV , in person at Troy and then one that I missed I watched a replay of. I have to agree with some of you on a lot of things but going back to the basics on defense is a must. I can assure you the players on defense knew or know how to tackle of they would never have gotten a scholarship or looked at by any school even down to D3. I see speed on the opposing bigger schools and being outsized however by even the Sunbelt teams I have seen Troy play. So you have to win when outsized and with someone faster than you with great skills and discipline. Which I think discipline and leadership on the field (probably off too) is a huge part of the fundamental problems. I did see some future bright spots from some Defensive younger players that start and on offense a line that is young from looking at the roster and the backs (QB and Running backs) and receivers on offense the future looks bright and lots of confidence from the freshman and sophomore group. I think if we add the missing components to that with or without a coaching change the future looks bright. Here are my questions and what I have recently heard from a coaching buddy of mine:

1. The building everyone wants to build. While I agree nice facilities bring in recruits, getting them to stay and succeed is greater than a big nice building. Is this building better locker rooms or more empty seats that they will view when playing those hard wet Thursday night games or day after Thanksgiving games that smaller conferences have to take for TV time? Better locker rooms and coaches office, film room, weight room, I would support but empty seats I would not , it will not fix a problem.

2. I was told by a buddy that if you don't come to Troy's football camp in the summer you usually are not looked at. I hope that is not the case and while camps are great, the burden and cost of those are on the parent and/or care giver or player themselves. I hope we are out in Alabama alone hitting every high school and then the southern and northern areas of Georgia. So I hope this is not true.

Just and old guys thoughts for what its worth a question on building and recruiting.

Ok gramps, I'll give you my opinion on your questions.

1) The building is more for support, locker rooms, offices, tutoring, etc. There will be some suites, also, but Tyne Davis was built back in the D3 days.

2) I do know that the camps brought a lot of offensive players and I assume there is some 7 on 7 drills with defensive backs. I don't know that the coaches don't visit schools because of the camps, but that doesn't make sense to me...:confused013:

preacher
11-19-2013, 02:57 PM
I have sat back and watch the month of October the games that were on TV , in person at Troy and then one that I missed I watched a replay of. I have to agree with some of you on a lot of things but going back to the basics on defense is a must. I can assure you the players on defense knew or know how to tackle of they would never have gotten a scholarship or looked at by any school even down to D3. I see speed on the opposing bigger schools and being outsized however by even the Sunbelt teams I have seen Troy play. So you have to win when outsized and with someone faster than you with great skills and discipline. Which I think discipline and leadership on the field (probably off too) is a huge part of the fundamental problems. I did see some future bright spots from some Defensive younger players that start and on offense a line that is young from looking at the roster and the backs (QB and Running backs) and receivers on offense the future looks bright and lots of confidence from the freshman and sophomore group. I think if we add the missing components to that with or without a coaching change the future looks bright. Here are my questions and what I have recently heard from a coaching buddy of mine:

1. The building everyone wants to build. While I agree nice facilities bring in recruits, getting them to stay and succeed is greater than a big nice building. Is this building better locker rooms or more empty seats that they will view when playing those hard wet Thursday night games or day after Thanksgiving games that smaller conferences have to take for TV time? Better locker rooms and coaches office, film room, weight room, I would support but empty seats I would not , it will not fix a problem.

2. I was told by a buddy that if you don't come to Troy's football camp in the summer you usually are not looked at. I hope that is not the case and while camps are great, the burden and cost of those are on the parent and/or care giver or player themselves. I hope we are out in Alabama alone hitting every high school and then the southern and northern areas of Georgia. So I hope this is not true.

Just and old guys thoughts for what its worth a question on building and recruiting.

I was told by a recruiter from Troy after he watched the kid at a ballgame to get him to our camp. He said, "It's imperative that he comes to our camp because that's where we can do the best evaluation. He'll be way ahead of the game if he comes to camp." The kid could not go to camp. Auburn recruited heavy as well as Ark State. He went to Ark State because they wanted him more than Troy and he would play earlier than Auburn. He wanted Troy but Troy didn't show interest.

preacher
11-19-2013, 03:03 PM
Defense - I think suffer from everything mentioned above but I also think we do not disguise our defense well enough pre-snap. It seems to be way to easy for opposing QB to pick up on what we are doing.

dgoebel
11-19-2013, 03:30 PM
Ok gramps, I'll give you my opinion on your questions.

1) The building is more for support, locker rooms, offices, tutoring, etc. There will be some suites, also, but Tyne Davis was built back in the D3 days.

2) I do know that the camps brought a lot of offensive players and I assume there is some 7 on 7 drills with defensive backs. I don't know that the coaches don't visit schools because of the camps, but that doesn't make sense to me...:confused013:

Troy was never D111, we were twice D11 National Champs

Lego
11-19-2013, 03:30 PM
I was told by a recruiter from Troy after he watched the kid at a ballgame to get him to our camp. He said, "It's imperative that he comes to our camp because that's where we can do the best evaluation. He'll be way ahead of the game if he comes to camp." The kid could not go to camp. Auburn recruited heavy as well as Ark State. He went to Ark State because they wanted him more than Troy and he would play earlier than Auburn. He wanted Troy but Troy didn't show interest.

Sorry preach, this does not make sense.

A recruit wanted Troy, Troy wanted him, also have offers from Auburn and Arky St. And he didn't go to Troy because he didn't attend the Troy camp ?

Someone is pulling your leg, that is alot of laziness or incompetence. :confused013:

dgoebel
11-19-2013, 03:33 PM
Sorry preach, this does not make sense.

A recruit wanted Troy, Troy wanted him, also have offers from Auburn and Arky St. And he didn't go to Troy because he didn't attend the Troy camp ?

Someone is pulling your leg, that is alot of laziness or incompetence. :confused013:

Camps are a great recruiting tool but you are limited on evaluations. You can time them, watch them throw, run, jump.....all in shorts. It helps, but there is no substitute for game film and watching the player in person...in pads.

preacher
11-19-2013, 03:35 PM
Sorry preach, this does not make sense.

A recruit wanted Troy, Troy wanted him, also have offers from Auburn and Arky St. And he didn't go to Troy because he didn't attend the Troy camp ?

Someone is pulling your leg, that is alot of laziness or incompetence. :confused013:

He never got a Troy offer because he didn't go to camp. He committed early and Troy had no shot. The recruiter watched him play as a Junior.

Troygrandfather
11-19-2013, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the upgrade picture. Looks great and glad to see no future empty bleachers until school grows more. If anything like that arena it will be top notch. I will have to say, it will attract players, but winning even with average facilities is more of an attraction.

I did have a question after reading the comments, good point by someone, how many of our defensive players, were recruited and signed by played another position in high school and put in a new role? I know none of us may know that, but I still think the starters should know the fundamentals better or play them better unless position changed and still trying to adjust. Also, my big concern is that the missed tackles I watched on the replay of Saturdays game, I never say others players put in off the bench. Why? At least give one of them a chance unless burning a redshirt, and I would think there are more available that might give the starters a push to mentally adjust and make those plays even against faster, bigger players.

preacher
11-19-2013, 03:38 PM
Ark State and Auburn drove down and watched him in the summer. Ark State offered then. Auburn offered after he had verbally committed.

You can call me a lot of things but liar or gullible is not one.

SoFlaTrojan
11-19-2013, 03:42 PM
One issue I noticed this year (and last, to some extent) is how our defensive backs seem to be clueless as to what they're responsibilities are. Are they just not smart enough to understand and implement the coverages?

Often, after they are beaten badly, they throw up their arms in disgust, pound the ground or seem to yell/look at another player as if to say, "Where in the hell were you?" or "What was I supposed to do?".

How can they not make any, ANY improvement over the course of 11 games?!

preacher
11-19-2013, 03:53 PM
One issue I noticed this year (and last, to some extent) is how our defensive backs seem to be clueless as to what they're responsibilities are. Are they just not smart enough to understand and implement the coverages?

Often, after they are beaten badly, they throw up their arms in disgust, pound the ground or seem to yell/look at another player as if to say, "Where in the hell were you?" or "What was I supposed to do?".

How can they not make any, ANY improvement over the course of 11 games?!

That's why I think our defensive play calls are way to predictable for the opposing OC and QB. I think they pick up on a something we do and our guys get hammered. Like a cat with a ball.

Lego
11-19-2013, 05:54 PM
Ark State and Auburn drove down and watched him in the summer. Ark State offered then. Auburn offered after he had verbally committed.

You can call me a lot of things but liar or gullible is not one.

:confused013: never said anything about liar.

I just don't understand why we didn't offer him and if that reason is because he didn't go to a Troy camp then that actually explains a lot about our current situation.

Lego
11-19-2013, 05:56 PM
Thanks for the upgrade picture. Looks great and glad to see no future empty bleachers until school grows more. If anything like that arena it will be top notch. I will have to say, it will attract players, but winning even with average facilities is more of an attraction.



Could you say this one more time into my good ear ?

jagd1305
11-19-2013, 06:01 PM
One issue I noticed this year (and last, to some extent) is how our defensive backs seem to be clueless as to what they're responsibilities are. Are they just not smart enough to understand and implement the coverages?

Often, after they are beaten badly, they throw up their arms in disgust, pound the ground or seem to yell/look at another player as if to say, "Where in the hell were you?" or "What was I supposed to do?".

How can they not make any, ANY improvement over the course of 11 games?!

11 games?
33 would be more accurate.

Lego
11-19-2013, 06:19 PM
2. I was told by a buddy that if you don't come to Troy's football camp in the summer you usually are not looked at. I hope that is not the case and while camps are great, the burden and cost of those are on the parent and/or care giver or player themselves. I hope we are out in Alabama alone hitting every high school and then the southern and northern areas of Georgia. So I hope this is not true.

Just and old guys thoughts for what its worth a question on building and recruiting.


I was told by a recruiter from Troy after he watched the kid at a ballgame to get him to our camp. He said, "It's imperative that he comes to our camp because that's where we can do the best evaluation. He'll be way ahead of the game if he comes to camp." The kid could not go to camp. Auburn recruited heavy as well as Ark State. He went to Ark State because they wanted him more than Troy and he would play earlier than Auburn. He wanted Troy but Troy didn't show interest.

This seems unbelievable. Still can't think this is true. We only offer kids that come to the Troy camp ? What kind of strategy is that ? If true, then it kinda explains our situation and smells of just plain laziness or an "I just don't care" attitude.

Can anyone refute this as a whole ? Well I know we make at least make one trip a year to the JUCOS to pick up several.

Hemi Man
11-19-2013, 06:41 PM
This seems unbelievable. Still can't think this is true. We only offer kids that come to the Troy camp ? What kind of strategy is that ? If true, then it kinda explains our situation and smells of just plain laziness or an "I just don't care" attitude.

Can anyone refute this as a whole ? Well I know we make at least make one trip a year to the JUCOS to pick up several.

I find it highly unlikely. However I can see coaches pimping their own camps. That does make sense.

Lego
11-19-2013, 09:45 PM
I find it highly unlikely. However I can see coaches pimping their own camps. That does make sense.

I will say yes and yes.

thrl595
11-20-2013, 12:09 AM
Sorry preach, this does not make sense.

A recruit wanted Troy, Troy wanted him, also have offers from Auburn and Arky St. And he didn't go to Troy because he didn't attend the Troy camp ?

Someone is pulling your leg, that is alot of laziness or incompetence. :confused013:

Laziness AND incompetence!

Troy87
11-24-2013, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the upgrade picture. Looks great and glad to see no future empty bleachers until school grows more. If anything like that arena it will be top notch. I will have to say, it will attract players, but winning even with average facilities is more of an attraction.


Frankly, it's been a while since we had even average facilities.

dgoebel
11-25-2013, 07:53 AM
I find it highly unlikely. However I can see coaches pimping their own camps. That does make sense.

They use the camp heavily for recruiting, whether it is a requirement to be recruited??? I hope not, you can't expect a prospect from say Texas, South Florida, or 6 or more hours away to drive, stay in hotel, food, gas etc.