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SOTStrumpet
12-24-2012, 02:44 AM
I'm new to the Troy community and just found out that Troy's fight song used to be Dixie. Why doesn't the SOTS play it now? At least as a stand tune.

TrojanFanatic
12-24-2012, 11:55 AM
SOTS Plays it as a part of pregame, but it was changed to be politically correct.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 01:05 PM
SOTS Plays it as a part of pregame, but it was changed to be politically correct.
I hope I live to see the day this politically correct crap is put to rest. We are Americans.....just Americans, one word!

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 03:11 PM
They play a few bars of it every pre-game... why do we need more?

redwaver
12-24-2012, 03:17 PM
They play a few bars of it every pre-game... why do we need more?
Because if we have to explain you wouldn't understand!:rollinglaugh:

Bubba the Trojan
12-24-2012, 03:26 PM
The opening line from Dixie is the major theme of the "Trojan Fanfare". It is a very good and effective way to get that part of the University's history in what is one of the largest pregame ceromonies around. Dr. Long did a wonderful job writing the "Fanfare".

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Because if we have to explain you wouldn't understand!:rollinglaugh:

Then I am grateful for my ignorance!

redwaver
12-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Then I am grateful for my ignorance!
I will join you in your bliss of ignorance when they decide Gang Rap is disrespectful and band it as well. I've often wondered how you band just the parts of history that some dislike and where you go to do that. Just sayin!

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 03:56 PM
I will join you in your bliss of ignorance when they decide Gang Rap is disrespectful and band it as well. I've often wondered how you band just the parts of history that some dislike and where you go to do that. Just sayin!

I think you may be very blissful already. I just don't get much pleasure from hearing dixie, that's all... no political statement in there at all. But you go ahead and listen to what you want, and I will do the same. Just don't fret if the SOTS doesn't play the gameday music you yearn for from "back in the day."

By the way, I was born in the South, grew up in the South, and spent all but about 5 of my 42 years in the South... I understand the South just fine.

Also, google the word "banned" and compare it with the definition of "band." Just sayin!

Go Trojans and SOTS!

TrojanFanatic
12-24-2012, 04:00 PM
I don't see a problem with Dixie, but I'm much younger so I didn't go through the "ban" but I know it affected my high school. I don't mind hearing or playing it, was in the band, and I don't really understand why it's such a big deal...I guess when I go to school and hear certain words that people call themselves, but won't let others call them, I quit caring what's PC and what's not.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 04:02 PM
I think you may be very blissful already. I just don't get much pleasure from hearing dixie, that's all... no political statement in there at all. But you go ahead and listen to what you want, and I will do the same. Just don't fret if the SOTS doesn't play the gameday music you yearn for from "back in the day."

By the way, I was born in the South, grew up in the South, and spent all but about 5 of my 42 years in the South... I understand the South just fine.

Also, google the word "banned" and compare it with the definition of "band." Just sayin!

Go Trojans and SOTS!
"I think you may be very blissful already"

Yep, that's me, wallowing in ignorance! How do you music experts spell CLASSICS? Just need a young connoisseur to set me straight!:laughing021:

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't see a problem with Dixie, but I'm much younger so I didn't go through the "ban" but I know it affected my high school. I don't mind hearing or playing it, was in the band, and I don't really understand why it's such a big deal...I guess when I go to school and hear certain words that people call themselves, but won't let others call them, I quit caring what's PC and what's not.

I hear what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent. But, think for just a minute, is there ANY song selection that you would find inappropriate? ANY SONG AT ALL? ANY SONG?

By the way, I am not anti-dixie. I would not care if they currently played the tune. But I do question motives when folks want certain tunes played that are not currently on the playlist. For example, if someone wanted a certain 2 Live Crew tune played by the SOTS or over the PA, I might just ask....WHY?

redwaver
12-24-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't see a problem with Dixie, but I'm much younger so I didn't go through the "ban" but I know it affected my high school. I don't mind hearing or playing it, was in the band, and I don't really understand why it's such a big deal...I guess when I go to school and hear certain words that people call themselves, but won't let others call them, I quit caring what's PC and what's not.
Be careful, you will be found guilty of being "ignorant" for thinking for yourself. With some, that is what old people do. Great song written about pride of a part of the country. Pride? Seems we have list a lot of that in our great nation these days. Oh well, glad you appreciate the tune! It once meant a lot to Troy students.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 04:13 PM
I hear what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent. But, think for just a minute, is there ANY song selection that you would find inappropriate? ANY SONG AT ALL? ANY SONG?

By the way, I am not anti-dixie. I would not care if they currently played the tune. But I do question motives when folks want certain tunes played that are not currently on the playlist. For example, if someone wanted a certain 2 Live Crew tune played by the SOTS or over the PA, I might just ask....WHY?
YA! That idiotic Rap music where every other word is a curse word, derogatory comments about women, killing of police or any one else the writer/ singer feels needs to die. Compare that to a song like Dixie and try telling us which one ought to be ban!!!x

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:15 PM
"I think you may be very blissful already"

Yep, that's me, wallowing in ignorance! How do you music experts spell CLASSICS? Just need a young connoisseur to set me straight!:laughing021:

Dixie a classic? Really?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/1900sc_SM_Dixie.jpg

redwaver
12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Dixie a classic? Really?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/1900sc_SM_Dixie.jpg
Since almost every song of that day was sung in black face does not mean the song was racial. Some people want to make everything these days a racial issue. Usually when they can't find a way to carry on an intelligent debate!

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
Although profanity does not personally offend me, I can see how songs laced with obscenities can be inapproriate (not offensive, inappropriate).

Does anyone know the real origin of the song Dixie? At least when 2 Live Crew or Eminem rap we can tell very quickly what their meaning is, and then decide if it is inappropriate or not.

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:23 PM
Since almost every song of that day was sung in black face does not mean the song was racial. Some people want to make everything these days a racial issue. Usually when they can't find a way to carry on an intelligent debate!

Just research the origins of the song.

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:25 PM
Since almost every song of that day was sung in black face does not mean the song was racial. Some people want to make everything these days a racial issue. Usually when they can't find a way to carry on an intelligent debate!

And not "almost every" song was sung in black face. Do a little research. You may be old, but you are not that old.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 04:34 PM
And not "almost every" song was sung in black face. Do a little research. You may be old, but you are not that old.
If Gangsta Rap lyrics don't offend you but Dixie does we need to stop this. One of us has lost touch with reality. "Not that old"? Old enough to have grown up when they were being performed on stages is all but how could us old goats know anything about good music compared to today youthful musical geniuses. Heck we had The Platters, Bing Crosby, Elvis, Nat King Cole, Bobby Darin, The Ink Spots and you have Rap! Yep, it's us who is out of touch with common sense. My bad!:-)

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 04:59 PM
If Gangsta Rap lyrics don't offend you

Some do, some don't. I don't think you have a reasonable understanding of the music genre you are referring to. I am sure by your standards Maroon 5 and Bruno Mars sing "gangsta rap."



If Gangsta Rap lyrics don't offend you but Dixie does we need to stop this.

For the record, dixie does not offend me at all.



One of us has lost touch with reality.

If you mean 1950's reality, you are correct. That was before my time. Although, for those who think the 50's were so great, I can imagine that depends on variables that many of us would not understand.


"Not that old"? Old enough to have grown up when they were being performed on stages is all but how could us old goats know anything about good music compared to today youthful musical geniuses.

So, you were around when Dan Emmett wrote then performed dixie with Bryant's minstrels group in 1859?



Heck we had The Platters, Bing Crosby, Elvis, Nat King Cole, Bobby Darin, The Ink Spots and you have Rap! Yep, it's us who is out of touch with common sense. My bad!:-)

They were great in their day, but life goes on, care to join it?

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 05:04 PM
And redwaver, do you believe that rap is my music genre of choice? Really? Based on the fact I am not demanding that dixie be played in its entirety?

I like a lot of different music, from many different sources, both recent and older.

Open your mind redwaver, Merry Christmas dude!

redwaver
12-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Some do, some don't. I don't think you have a reasonable understanding of the music genre you are referring to. I am sure by your standards Maroon 5 and Bruno Mars sing "gangsta rap."




For the record, dixie does not offend me at all.




If you mean 1950's reality, you are correct. That was before my time. Although, for those who think the 50's were so great, I can imagine that depends on variables that many of us would not understand.



So, you were around when Dan Emmett wrote then performed dixie with Bryant's minstrels group in 1859?




They were great in their day, but life goes on, care to join it?
"Life goes on, care to join it"

Naw, I'll just sit back, put on the old 78's and remember a time when kids could distinguish between music with honorable lyrics you were not ashamed for your mom to know you had and this Rap stuff where you just holler words that rhyme (sometimes) into a gold microphone. Oh, you also have to play it so loud that everyone in two counties can hear it and every burglar alarm in 1/2 mile is set off. Always wondered how you courted to that stuff but guess that has changed as well. Yep, they call it "progress"!

redwaver
12-24-2012, 05:16 PM
And redwaver, do you believe that rap is my music genre of choice? Really? Based on the fact I am not demanding that dixie be played in its entirety?

I like a lot of different music, from many different sources, both recent and older.

Open your mind redwaver, Merry Christmas dude!
.....and a "White Christmas" to you.......can't think of a comeback to "Dude" though! I'll think on it though.

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 05:36 PM
"Life goes on, care to join it"

Naw, I'll just sit back, put on the old 78's and remember a time when kids could distinguish between music with honorable lyrics you were not ashamed for your mom to know you had and this Rap stuff where you just holler words that rhyme (sometimes) into a gold microphone. Oh, you also have to play it so loud that everyone in two counties can hear it and every burglar alarm in 1/2 mile is set off. Always wondered how you courted to that stuff but guess that has changed as well. Yep, they call it "progress"!

Your mother or grandmother had no problem with Elvis? Afterall, his music was influenced by African-American blues. That was shameful.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 05:37 PM
"Some do, some don't. I don't think you have a reasonable understanding of the music genre you are referring to. I am sure by your standards Maroon 5 and Bruno Mars sing "gangsta rap."

Nope, never said all Rap had vulgar lyrics. Just said it gives the term "music" a bad name. Since I am definitely not a music major I don't claim the level of expertise you seem to possess. However I am capable of distinguishing appropriate and inappropriate tunes and I also know music has gone the way of societal standards and morals. Can you imagine if back in the day of Dixie authors would have used language against the African American race that Rappers use today against the White race what the outcry would be today ( and rightfully so). It's just that tunes like Dixie, Way Down Upon The Suwannee River, and others have taken a (excuse the pun) RAP that the exact same thing today in Gangsta Rap is given a pass for. Hypocrisy is never a good thing. We can't change History as much as they try. We just all need to live today and try to learn how to get along TOGETHER. Happy holidays my young friend. :-)

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 05:37 PM
.....and a "White Christmas" to you.......can't think of a comeback to "Dude" though! I'll think on it though.

Don't waste your time dude, I think our conversation is officially over.

redwaver
12-24-2012, 05:43 PM
Your mother or grandmother had no problem with Elvis? Afterall, his music was influenced by African-American blues. That was shameful.
Shameful? Why? Elvis was proud of where he got his inspiration for singing. Naw, the folks didn't like all that hip movement but they lived with it. Hound Dog just don't hold a candle to Gangsta but maybe Teddy Bear did!:-)

redwaver
12-24-2012, 05:45 PM
Don't waste your time dude, I think our conversation is officially over.
Right on Dude! :-)

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 10:42 PM
Shameful? Why? Elvis was proud of where he got his inspiration for singing. Naw, the folks didn't like all that hip movement but they lived with it. Hound Dog just don't hold a candle to Gangsta but maybe Teddy Bear did!:-)

Did they have sarcasm back in the 1950's? I guess you will just have to learn to live with it...sorry dude. Merry Christmas redwaver!!!

SOTStrumpet
12-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Goodness! I didn't meant to spark such debate! lol From my research, Dixie was written by a Yankee for a vaudeville routine. It was about a black guy that was longing to return to the South for the rest of his life. It was written in the black vernacular. But if that's what's racial about it, then I'm a racist every time I try to mimic someone's accent...

Doug4Troy
12-24-2012, 11:07 PM
Goodness! I didn't meant to spark such debate! lol

Debate is good, your post was fine!


From my research, Dixie was written by a Yankee for a vaudeville routine. It was about a black guy that was longing to return to the South for the rest of his life. It was written in the black vernacular. But if that's what's racial about it, then I'm a racist every time I try to mimic someone's accent...

I think that is mostly true, but if I research more, I can see where the controversy stems from. Despite what redwaver may think, I am not offended by the song at all. I have no reason to be and it would not bother me if they still played it. I was just giving my opinion that it's not a tune I want to be played... along with a lot of "gangsta rap" as well. :jester:

Good first post trumpet! You got a great deal of interest with it. :thumb:

Welcome to the board!

redwaver
12-24-2012, 11:51 PM
Did they have sarcasm back in the 1950's? I guess you will just have to learn to live with it...sorry dude. Merry Christmas redwaver!!!
Yep, and in the 40's too. Happy New Year Doug4Troy. Good debate. My dad once said " that's why they make Vanilla and chocolate ice cream.:laughing021:

TrojanFanatic
12-25-2012, 12:31 AM
This comes from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth, "Today, "Dixie" is sometimes considered offensive, and its critics link the act of singing it to sympathy for the concept of slavery in the American South. Its supporters, on the other hand, view it as a legitimate aspect of Southern culture and heritage and the campaigns against it as political correctness. The song was a favorite of President Abraham Lincoln- he had it played at some of his political rallies and at the announcement of General Robert E. Lee's surrender."

This tells me that people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. This can be considered the same debate of the Rebel flag or having a "Rebel" mascot, like Johnny Reb. Things that are associated with the Old South are, most of the time, considered racist and/or inappropriate because of that association, and mostly only that. I'm all for the motto "Heritage not Hate" but to each his own.

Merry Christmas Trojan Family!

JPSousa1898
12-25-2012, 02:52 AM
If my memory serves me, the university was threatened with a lawsuit several times over Dixie.

Once for Dixie itself, Once for Dixie-Trojans (a hybrid of the old and new), and once more for allowing the Alumni Band to play it.

The fact remains is that no matter how good a song really is, that if someone attaches a negative connotation to it and can get a jury of his or her peers to agree with them in a court of law, any piece of music can become very costly to an organization.

If you need further evidence, look up how long it took the Israeli National Symphony to play Wagner, and that's even an example from another country. For more recent proof, look at what happened this past summer with that Russian Girl band that took on the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Government. It happens all over the world.

Music invokes such powerful emotions that it cannot be easily separated from the events that get attached to it. Hence the power of Beethoven's 9th Symphony and Handel's Messiah.

Yeah... I'd like to play Dixie too, and yes I have my own recording of the band playing it, but do I think it's not the time or place to bring it back? Unfortunately, yes. We must remain sensitive to our fans and those of other teams in building a positive and enjoyable game day atmosphere which means Dixie must remain on the shelves, archived for a time and invoked only in recording.

Doug4Troy
12-25-2012, 11:55 AM
If my memory serves me, the university was threatened with a lawsuit several times over Dixie.

Once for Dixie itself, Once for Dixie-Trojans (a hybrid of the old and new), and once more for allowing the Alumni Band to play it.

The fact remains is that no matter how good a song really is, that if someone attaches a negative connotation to it and can get a jury of his or her peers to agree with them in a court of law, any piece of music can become very costly to an organization.

If you need further evidence, look up how long it took the Israeli National Symphony to play Wagner, and that's even an example from another country. For more recent proof, look at what happened this past summer with that Russian Girl band that took on the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Government. It happens all over the world.

Music invokes such powerful emotions that it cannot be easily separated from the events that get attached to it. Hence the power of Beethoven's 9th Symphony and Handel's Messiah.

Yeah... I'd like to play Dixie too, and yes I have my own recording of the band playing it, but do I think it's not the time or place to bring it back? Unfortunately, yes. We must remain sensitive to our fans and those of other teams in building a positive and enjoyable game day atmosphere which means Dixie must remain on the shelves, archived for a time and invoked only in recording.

Great post! Despite what redwaver may think I am not a huge fan of the PC movement, but things change. Our school has had many nicknames, from Bulldogs, to Teachers, to Red Wave, to Trojans.

Change is inevitable, but my loyalty to Troy will NOT change.

Rep point to you JPSousa!

redwaver
12-25-2012, 12:10 PM
Great post! Despite what redwaver may think I am not a huge fan of the PC movement, but things change. Our school has had many nicknames, from Bulldogs, to Teachers, to Red Wave, to Trojans.

Change is inevitable, but my loyalty to Troy will NOT change.

Rep point to you JPSousa!
Oh, I'm not judgmental of anyone's opinions of such issues. I just have my own thoughts. As a society WHEN do we say enough is enough? There will always be groups with agendas who want the majority to change things they have done for decades simply because they don't agree. I guess I am one of those people who are sympathetic to wrong doings but realize they were pare of our history like it or not. My great great grandmother was Creek Indian and I guess they have a case for banning stuff as well. I don't agree with banning Native American mascots unless they are disrespectful in nature. There are a whole bunch of us in the thing we call a country and if we all started doing this little would be left. This is just MY thoughts. Agree or disagree. Either is ok by me.

Doug4Troy
12-25-2012, 01:53 PM
I just have my own thoughts.

I applaud you for having your own thoughts. But it is amazing when some folks claim to be "free thinkers" when they are really just parroting the talking points they have heard others state on issues.

I am a 42 year old white guy, and I do not always believe the things that others think I should, or think the way they expect me to. I like some rap music (only some, like the early stuff a lot and some recent), I like rock, pop, country (love some Paisley, Aldean, Lambert, Chesney, Straight, Cash, Zac Brown, Rucker, Bentley...). I grew up listening to Conway, Loretta, Hank Jr., but I don't care for them today. Still like to hear some Hank Sr. though.

The tune dixie does not personally offend me, and I don't completely understand why it offends others. But just because I don't fully understand it, doesn't mean that it does not offend them. Honestly, I just don't like the tune and I do not yearn for the SOTS to play it in its entirety. I don't care if it is banned or not, just don't want to hear it.

redwaver, we are not that different I suspect, except for music taste which is no real big deal. Merry Christmas partner (not dude :jester:) :eatdrink004:

What's the next discussion? Confederate flag debate? Global warming? Boxers vs briefs? :confused013:

redwaver
12-25-2012, 02:09 PM
I applaud you for having your own thoughts. But it is amazing when some folks claim to be "free thinkers" when they are really just parroting the talking points they have heard others state on issues.

I am a 42 year old white guy, and I do not always believe the things that others think I should, or think the way they expect me to. I like some rap music (only some, like the early stuff a lot and some recent), I like rock, pop, country (love some Paisley, Aldean, Lambert, Chesney, Straight, Cash, Zac Brown, Rucker, Bentley...). I grew up listening to Conway, Loretta, Hank Jr., but I don't care for them today. Still like to hear some Hank Sr. though.

The tune dixie does not personally offend me, and I don't completely understand why it offends others. But just because I don't fully understand it, doesn't mean that it does not offend them. Honestly, I just don't like the tune and I do not yearn for the SOTS to play it in its entirety. I don't care if it is banned or not, just don't want to hear it.

redwaver, we are not that different I suspect, except for music taste which is no real big deal. Merry Christmas partner (not dude :jester:) :eatdrink004:

What's the next discussion? Confederate flag debate? Global warming? Boxers vs briefs? :confused013:
Could be! It's part of history, good or bad. That flag stood for a lot of things non slavery related. Should be taught that way but its not. I don't have any issue with any music anyone wants to listen to that is not derogatory in lyrics. I like a lot of the same stuff you like I just don't like the hypocritical approach that "your music offends me so we will ban it but if my music offends you, tough luck." I also agree that using certain terms toward a ethnic group should be avoided....but avoided by THEM as well or don't get upset if others us it. It's called common sense. Opinions are like noses, we all have one. I just balk when I am told some group is going to stop me from doing or enjoying something I see no sensible reason for stopping. I also want government to stay out of our lives as well but that's a "fight" for another day! Have a wonderful holiday season!

TrojanWarrior418
12-26-2012, 07:17 PM
Can someone post any of these old Sound of the South songs? I would like to hear them....for the first time.

redwaver
12-26-2012, 11:16 PM
I applaud you for having your own thoughts. But it is amazing when some folks claim to be "free thinkers" when they are really just parroting the talking points they have heard others state on issues.

I am a 42 year old white guy, and I do not always believe the things that others think I should, or think the way they expect me to. I like some rap music (only some, like the early stuff a lot and some recent), I like rock, pop, country (love some Paisley, Aldean, Lambert, Chesney, Straight, Cash, Zac Brown, Rucker, Bentley...). I grew up listening to Conway, Loretta, Hank Jr., but I don't care for them today. Still like to hear some Hank Sr. though.

The tune dixie does not personally offend me, and I don't completely understand why it offends others. But just because I don't fully understand it, doesn't mean that it does not offend them. Honestly, I just don't like the tune and I do not yearn for the SOTS to play it in its entirety. I don't care if it is banned or not, just don't want to hear it.

redwaver, we are not that different I suspect, except for music taste which is no real big deal. Merry Christmas partner (not dude :jester:) :eatdrink004:

What's the next discussion? Confederate flag debate? Global warming? Boxers vs briefs? :confused013:
Ok, so it offends "some". Are you for baning everything "some" are offended by? Then I am offended by Gangsta Rap! BAN IT! I can assure you your not so what's wrong with my thoughts. What if I told you tunes you likes or thought had a place in history offend me. You would be ok with baning them? I doubt it. Politically correct junk gives me a pain in the ---. Just behave in a proper way TODAY and we won't have to worry about tomorrow. History is what it is. Should we still be hostile at the Japaneese? Germans? British? Should we ban their music, their art, their technology? Of course not. You forgive and go on with life. We should learn from our mistakes but no matter what we do, it changes nothing that happened. I thought we had dropped this conversation. Nobody is going to change their minds so lets let it go. Dixie has been canned to satisfy the PC crowd that thinks that will accomplish something so we will all live with it like it or not. You have every right to hour opinion but I don't have to agree. To me, it is a great tune written by a black man, I was taught, so there, what is the problem? JMHO!!

Doug4Troy
12-27-2012, 12:37 AM
Ok, so it offends "some". Are you for baning everything "some" are offended by? Then I am offended by Gangsta Rap! BAN IT! I can assure you your not so what's wrong with my thoughts. What if I told you tunes you likes or thought had a place in history offend me. You would be ok with baning them? I doubt it. Politically correct junk gives me a pain in the ---. Just behave in a proper way TODAY and we won't have to worry about tomorrow. History is what it is. Should we still be hostile at the Japaneese? Germans? British? Should we ban their music, their art, their technology? Of course not. You forgive and go on with life. We should learn from our mistakes but no matter what we do, it changes nothing that happened. I thought we had dropped this conversation. Nobody is going to change their minds so lets let it go. Dixie has been canned to satisfy the PC crowd that thinks that will accomplish something so we will all live with it like it or not. You have every right to hour opinion but I don't have to agree. To me, it is a great tune written by a black man, I was taught, so there, what is the problem? JMHO!!

Wow... I thought this discussion was over as well. Uhh, there are so many things wrong with your post, I don't think I can really address them all. My final 3 thoughts on this and I am done.

First, I don't know if dixie is BANNED at Troy or not, and I don't care. The SOTS can only play so many tunes at a game and I don't want to hear dixie. They already play a few bars of it in Fanfare, and if they played the whole tune...fine, but I don't care for that tune. I am sure it reminds you of the "good ol' days." Just not me, is that difficult to understand?

Second, it was NOT composed by a black man. It was composed by a white guy (like me) who performed on stage with his face painted black (not like me). Don't know if it is truly racist or not... AND I DON"T CARE. Just don't want it played. Difficult to understand?

Third, and most importantly:


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JPSousa1898
12-27-2012, 01:56 AM
Can someone post any of these old Sound of the South songs? I would like to hear them....for the first time.

Send me a message.

tntrojan
12-27-2012, 10:12 AM
I miss Dixie as a fight song, but understand it is not in the best interests of the school or SOTS to play a song that so many in our society consider offensive.
Now, you can ask why does Ole Miss and Jax State still play it and I cannot answer that, but even Ole Miss retired its Col. Reb mascot. It just makes sense that you would not want to offend a large portiuon of your student and alumni base by using symbols that were meant to intimidate African-Americans.
You can argue "heritage not hate" and I am on your side on that argument, until you look at what southern states did in the 1950s. Several of them added the Confederate battle symbol when the federal government was passing laws to force integration.
The band has traditionally had Confederate symbols as part of its history, and I appreciate that. The name invokes the South and the band used to wear berets with a Confederate battle emblem and "Mighty Might," the band's mascot, was pictured hitting a bass drum with the Confederate flag on it.
And if I recall correctly, when I first started at TSU in the early 80s, a Confederate flag hung beneath the U.S. and Alabama flags on the flag poll in the old Bibb Graves quad.
I am all for honoring what those young men did in the 1860s to defend their homes and what they saw as an intrusive federal government. The bravery many of them showed in the face of a superior enemy and overwhelming odds is unmatched in military history.
I am not for honoring the legacy of slavery.
Sincerely,
A Yankee by birth and a former SOTSer,
TNTrojan

Possum
12-27-2012, 11:25 PM
I miss Dixie as a fight song, but understand it is not in the best interests of the school or SOTS to play a song that so many in our society consider offensive.
Now, you can ask why does Ole Miss and Jax State still play it and I cannot answer that, but even Ole Miss retired its Col. Reb mascot. It just makes sense that you would not want to offend a large portiuon of your student and alumni base by using symbols that were meant to intimidate African-Americans.
You can argue "heritage not hate" and I am on your side on that argument, until you look at what southern states did in the 1950s. Several of them added the Confederate battle symbol when the federal government was passing laws to force integration.
The band has traditionally had Confederate symbols as part of its history, and I appreciate that. The name invokes the South and the band used to wear berets with a Confederate battle emblem and "Mighty Might," the band's mascot, was pictured hitting a bass drum with the Confederate flag on it.
And if I recall correctly, when I first started at TSU in the early 80s, a Confederate flag hung beneath the U.S. and Alabama flags on the flag poll in the old Bibb Graves quad.
I am all for honoring what those young men did in the 1860s to defend their homes and what they saw as an intrusive federal government. The bravery many of them showed in the face of a superior enemy and overwhelming odds is unmatched in military history.
I am not for honoring the legacy of slavery.
Sincerely,
A Yankee by birth and a former SOTSer,
TNTrojan

I agree.

Jericho Johnny
12-28-2012, 12:26 AM
I love "Dixie" - it's one of my favorite songs and it always stirs a little something within me. My ancestors from Mississippi and Alabama fought for the Confederacy and I am proud of their struggle while at the same time recognizing that their victory would have likely only perpetuated the rule of an oligarchical plantation society that truly did not have the interests of yeoman farmers like my grandfathers at heart.

The biggest problem I have with redwaver's argument is that the SOTS nor any other official school body that I am aware of has ever played "gangsta rap." Beyond that, I feel pretty confident in saying that even using the term "gangsta rap" shows a wholesale lack of knowledge of the genre and its many nuances.

I have extremely eclectic music tastes. Beyond the dozen or two dozen versions of Dixie on my iPod I have many classic and contemporary TRUE country artists (not that garbage pop country you hear on the radio today) as well as classical, pop (used to LOVE Lady Gaga), and yes, various genres of rap. As far as the rap goes, some of it has some very profane and violent lyrics. I don't blare this out my car windows, but I listen to what I enjoy, and there is a definite talent to make good rap music and a noticeable lack in bad rap music. I am white and do not listen to songs which include racist lyrics against whites or any other race.

I have a pretty wide knowledge of rap and can tell you that I have encountered such racism in rap only on very rare occasions. It's hardly a staple of "gangta rap." By the same token, it would be unfair to condemn country based on the Johnny Rebel recordings and David Allan Coe's race-baiting album from decades past.

I think what we are seeing here is a generational split more than part of a "politically correct" movement to crush our history and heritage. As much as I love Dixie, I also know that many of our students and alumni, particularly blacks, are uncomfortable with the symbols of the Confederacy and the very real legacy of slavery that the Confederacy unfortunately DID seek to prolong. As strange and wrongheaded as it may seem to us, some of them are probably as offended as some of us whites would be if they started playing Ice Cube's Cave B***h over the loudspeaker at home games. Even if it's not that extreme, why do we want to alienate a large section of our fan base when we can celebrate our heritage and history all we want at barbecues, reenactments, and SCV events if that's your cup of tea?

"Dixie" may be a part of our history, but it can't be a part of TROY's future if we intend to move towards ever-greater prestige and a reputation as a world-class institution of higher learning with a global alumni base. I don't like it any more than you, but that's the pragmatic reality.

Doug4Troy
12-28-2012, 12:45 AM
I love "Dixie" - it's one of my favorite songs and it always stirs a little something within me. My ancestors from Mississippi and Alabama fought for the Confederacy and I am proud of their struggle while at the same time recognizing that their victory would have likely only perpetuated the rule of an oligarchical plantation society that truly did not have the interests of yeoman farmers like my grandfathers at heart.

The biggest problem I have with redwaver's argument is that the SOTS nor any other official school body that I am aware of has ever played "gangsta rap." Beyond that, I feel pretty confident in saying that even using the term "gangsta rap" shows a wholesale lack of knowledge of the genre and its many nuances.

I have extremely eclectic music tastes. Beyond the dozen or two dozen versions of Dixie on my iPod I have many classic and contemporary TRUE country artists (not that garbage pop country you hear on the radio today) as well as classical, pop (used to LOVE Lady Gaga), and yes, various genres of rap. As far as the rap goes, some of it has some very profane and violent lyrics. I don't blare this out my car windows, but I listen to what I enjoy, and there is a definite talent to make good rap music and a noticeable lack in bad rap music. I am white and do not listen to songs which include racist lyrics against whites or any other race.

I have a pretty wide knowledge of rap and can tell you that I have encountered such racism in rap only on very rare occasions. It's hardly a staple of "gangta rap." By the same token, it would be unfair to condemn country based on the Johnny Rebel recordings and David Allan Coe's race-baiting album from decades past.

I think what we are seeing here is a generational split more than part of a "politically correct" movement to crush our history and heritage. As much as I love Dixie, I also know that many of our students and alumni, particularly blacks, are uncomfortable with the symbols of the Confederacy and the very real legacy of slavery that the Confederacy unfortunately DID seek to prolong. As strange and wrongheaded as it may seem to us, some of them are probably as offended as some of us whites would be if they started playing Ice Cube's Cave B***h over the loudspeaker at home games. Even if it's not that extreme, why do we want to alienate a large section of our fan base when we can celebrate our heritage and history all we want at barbecues, reenactments, and SCV events if that's your cup of tea?

"Dixie" may be a part of our history, but it can't be a part of TROY's future if we intend to move towards ever-greater prestige and a reputation as a world-class institution of higher learning with a global alumni base. I don't like it any more than you, but that's the pragmatic reality.

Great post.

stonewall009
01-22-2013, 10:57 AM
I am a Virginian first, I also served two tours in Iraq so I know a bit about combat and country. I'm not going to get into a big political debate about the 1860's but I will say that I am a Confederate Re-enacter and take my horses all over the place to paricipate in them. History is like anything else, depending on what side you're on you can pull data and logic to support your opinion, North or South. So I am not going to go into all that on this board but what I will say is that Troy should move ahead of everyone else and still INCLUDE Dixie in its songs. The whole purpose of diversity is to be understanding and being understanding of Dixie is no different, if you act inclusively and ban Dixie you're MISSING the point of diversity. I am a proud Southener and will always remember the true history of Virginia.


Great post.

Jericho Johnny
01-22-2013, 12:59 PM
So I am not going to go into all that on this board but what I will say is that Troy should move ahead of everyone else and still INCLUDE Dixie in its songs. The whole purpose of diversity is to be understanding and being understanding of Dixie is no different, if you act inclusively and ban Dixie you're MISSING the point of diversity.

I think your argument there reveals a certain myopia. You cannot be inclusive by being exclusive. While you and I may have no problem with much of the Confederate legacy and the trappings and symbols of the rebellion, for many people it is a bitter reminder of a discriminatory and brutal past. Don't forget, also, that these symbols have been co-opted by more recent segregationist and hate groups.

If you are a reenactor then perhaps you are able to see these old symbols used in a more historical and positive light, but that's not going to be the way the world at large sees it.

I think the current status quo is probably best. Though I (amazingly) didn't know it before reading this thread, the fact that the first few lines of Dixie are also the beginning of the fanfare is wonderfully symbolic of TROY's desire to embrace and "tip its hat" to its proud past while also seeking to shape its own future unburdened by the more unsavory elements of that past.

stonewall009
01-22-2013, 02:51 PM
I think your argument there reveals a certain myopia. You cannot be inclusive by being exclusive. While you and I may have no problem with much of the Confederate legacy and the trappings and symbols of the rebellion, for many people it is a bitter reminder of a discriminatory and brutal past. Don't forget, also, that these symbols have been co-opted by more recent segregationist and hate groups.

If you are a reenactor then perhaps you are able to see these old symbols used in a more historical and positive light, but that's not going to be the way the world at large sees it.

I think the current status quo is probably best. Though I (amazingly) didn't know it before reading this thread, the fact that the first few lines of Dixie are also the beginning of the fanfare is wonderfully symbolic of TROY's desire to embrace and "tip its hat" to its proud past while also seeking to shape its own future unburdened by the more unsavory elements of that past.

I'm just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree. These symbols haven't been hijacked anymore than the American flag or American Symbols. The problem is that we allow the "Popular" left wing media control what the mass population see and views. I still will never set aside my proud heritage because someone has failed to conduct true, thorough historical research. I understand race has been an issue in this country but the South is really not much guiltier than any other part of the country. If the War of Northern Aggression was about that then why did it take 100 before the Civil Rights Movements? Once again, I still believe the media painted a more dramatic picture of the South as a "Whole" and "Culture" than it really was. I will remind you that I am a Virginian and can only speak for this region of the country so I don't truly know that atmosphere of Alabama but I think my perception is pretty close.

stonewall009
01-22-2013, 02:52 PM
Point being, I think you miss the point of being "diverse" is you exclude Dixie.

Jericho Johnny
01-22-2013, 05:54 PM
For the record, I, for one, never used "diversity" or inclusiveness as motivations except in response to your post. I am not a believer in artificially promoting diversity, but I think schools like Troy University are already wonderful environments for learning about diverse cultures and traditions without it being necessary for the school to make it an administrative priority. That being said:


If the War of Northern Aggression was about that then why did it take 100 before the Civil Rights Movements? Once again, I still believe the media painted a more dramatic picture of the South as a "Whole" and "Culture" than it really was.

Using the term "War of Northern Aggression" makes it pretty clear where you stand ideologically. That is a very partisan term, more loaded than the related Southern moniker "War Between the States." A serious answer to your question about the Civil Rights movement is that the enfranchisement of blacks was militantly opposed by a wide cross-section of Southern society through the enactment of Jim Crow laws, lynchings, the general apathy of society at large (all parts of the country), and the willful pandering of the Democratic politicians in Washington. One book I had the pleasure to read (while at Troy University, as a matter of fact) that extensively covers the political history of the many states during that period is V.O. Key's Southern Politics. It's pretty much the authoritative source on that period.

To the second aspect of your statement, you are somewhat right. The South, while a distinctive area of the country, is still an amalgamation of cultures and norms that can very different between Alabama, Virginia, and Florida. A book I recommend on that subject which I only recently read is Away Down South: A History of Southern Identity. Away Down South: A History of Southern Identity. (http://www.amazon.com/Away-Down-South-Southern-Identity/dp/0195315812)

My point is that, while you may be able to make an argument that playing Dixie at school-sanctioned events would bring "diversity" to those functions, I really don't see how that answers the argument that it would be a negative for our school because it alienates a significant portion of our student body.

Can you name a present piece of music that alienates us as a white people? It is not as though they are playing black protest songs during football games. I want to see Troy University continue to grow and thrive, and we don't do that by scaring away people to remind a small group of the old days. In the future perhaps the emotional baggage attached to songs like Dixie will have lessened and it can be played without controversy, but we definitely aren't there yet.

I don't see that as an attack on my culture. I can listen to Dixie anytime I want. Who cares if it is at a TROY football game or in my car on the way there?

stonewall009
01-22-2013, 06:12 PM
Jericho, I get ya, trust me. I know what you're saying. I've heard all that same argument over and over and over. Like I said, history is no different than anything else, I can spit data back at you all day that backs my argument such as; what slaves did the Emancipation Proclamation actually free, what laws went into effect in Northern States after the war, colonization thoughts by Lincoln, have you ever read Lincoln's debate with Stephen Douglas while running for president, etc, etc, etc,.... But I am not going to get into a battle of the minds about who knows what about that era in history. I for one also have a Minor in History and live that particular history out on the weekends for entertainment and I can correlate that to my own combat experience. This is not a History message board. Trust me; I get what you are saying. You ask about what songs alienate white people; well I think your question is better suited to be about cultural identity as opposed to songs. To what extreme do we want to talk about this, it's more than just a war, song, particular culture, etc.... That's why I don't want to get to deep into this discussion on this board. Now I would honestly love to meet up with you at a tailgate and discuss our views on history, I'm sure we both could enlighten each other. Plus I don't know anyone down there and would like to have someone to drink a few and jaw a bit.

I appreciate that you acknowledge that diversity is almost always not the case even though it's always being preached. Diversity only accepts what is socially accepted at the time. It's more of a "popular acceptance" than diversity....

Good talk and I appreciate your points.


For the record, I, for one, never used "diversity" or inclusiveness as motivations except in response to your post. I am not a believer in artificially promoting diversity, but I think schools like Troy University are already wonderful environments for learning about diverse cultures and traditions without it being necessary for the school to make it an administrative priority. That being said:



Using the term "War of Northern Aggression" makes it pretty clear where you stand ideologically. That is a very partisan term, more loaded than the related Southern moniker "War Between the States." A serious answer to your question about the Civil Rights movement is that the enfranchisement of blacks was militantly opposed by a wide cross-section of Southern society through the enactment of Jim Crow laws, lynchings, the general apathy of society at large (all parts of the country), and the willful pandering of the Democratic politicians in Washington. One book I had the pleasure to read (while at Troy University, as a matter of fact) that extensively covers the political history of the many states during that period is V.O. Key's Southern Politics. It's pretty much the authoritative source on that period.

To the second aspect of your statement, you are somewhat right. The South, while a distinctive area of the country, is still an amalgamation of cultures and norms that can very different between Alabama, Virginia, and Florida. A book I recommend on that subject which I only recently read is Away Down South: A History of Southern Identity. Away Down South: A History of Southern Identity. (http://www.amazon.com/Away-Down-South-Southern-Identity/dp/0195315812)

My point is that, while you may be able to make an argument that playing Dixie at school-sanctioned events would bring "diversity" to those functions, I really don't see how that answers the argument that it would be a negative for our school because it alienates a significant portion of our student body.

Can you name a present piece of music that alienates us as a white people? It is not as though they are playing black protest songs during football games. I want to see Troy University continue to grow and thrive, and we don't do that by scaring away people to remind a small group of the old days. In the future perhaps the emotional baggage attached to songs like Dixie will have lessened and it can be played without controversy, but we definitely aren't there yet.

I don't see that as an attack on my culture. I can listen to Dixie anytime I want. Who cares if it is at a TROY football game or in my car on the way there?

Jericho Johnny
01-22-2013, 07:14 PM
Good talk and I appreciate your points.

Alright. :)

trojanblood
03-04-2013, 10:43 AM
Great post! Despite what redwaver may think I am not a huge fan of the PC movement, but things change. Our school has had many nicknames, from Bulldogs, to Teachers, to Red Wave, to Trojans.

Change is inevitable, but my loyalty to Troy will NOT change.

Rep point to you JPSousa!

The current SOTS stopped playing it back in the early 1990's, it was deemed only to be played by the Alumni band, up intil one day in 1992, when some current band members begged to play "DIXIE" again, well Dr. L agreed to play it until the week they play ASU. Well during pregame before the band went on for pregame, someone left the loud speaker on, and one of the announcers said, "Man look at all the N*****S. It was over the stadium. Well after that it was pulled and was never play with either band again.

Then in 1998 Robert Smith came in and we started play "Are You From Dixie" and that is when we started playing that.

There is the reason

Jericho Johnny
03-04-2013, 10:28 PM
Well during pregame before the band went on for pregame, someone left the loud speaker on, and one of the announcers said, "Man look at all the N*****S. It was over the stadium. Well after that it was pulled and was never play with either band again.

Good grief. That's an ugly story I'd never heard before. Pretty embarrassing.

trojanblood
03-04-2013, 11:19 PM
Good grief. That's an ugly story I'd never heard before. Pretty embarrassing.

you wanted to know the truth....if you want to know how I know it, I was in the stands!

jgrimsley
05-15-2013, 11:42 PM
The current SOTS stopped playing it back in the early 1990's, it was deemed only to be played by the Alumni band, up intil one day in 1992, when some current band members begged to play "DIXIE" again, well Dr. L agreed to play it until the week they play ASU. Well during pregame before the band went on for pregame, someone left the loud speaker on, and one of the announcers said, "Man look at all the N*****S. It was over the stadium. Well after that it was pulled and was never play with either band again.

Then in 1998 Robert Smith came in and we started play "Are You From Dixie" and that is when we started playing that.

There is the reason


Can I add something? I think that '91 was the last year SOTS played Dixie (I think I remember playing it?) I know it was in my green book. Don't recall hearing the comment, but the stink it created-wow. That being said, I do remember playing Dixie as alumni in '99. Not sure when it changed to AYFD, but it was in the Smith years, I believe.


And yeah, that story is embarrassing.

JPSousa1898
05-16-2013, 11:48 PM
Can I add something? I think that '91 was the last year SOTS played Dixie (I think I remember playing it?) I know it was in my green book. Don't recall hearing the comment, but the stink it created-wow. That being said, I do remember playing Dixie as alumni in '99. Not sure when it changed to AYFD, but it was in the Smith years, I believe.


And yeah, that story is embarrassing.

JGrimsley... I don't remember you guys playing it in 99 when I was a Freshman. However, I don't remember a lot of things.