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TroyTrojanMan
10-05-2005, 02:45 PM
We all see that Meadows is struggling, but I can remember back last year when DT was playing, everyone wanted to see Meadows. I remember few people on here saying that DT was ahead of Meadows for a reason, but 90% of the people wanted DTs head and Meadows starting because he looked good in warm ups and during practice. Now we see he was a back up for a reason and practice and a spring game is a bid difference from a real game. Last year I remember challenging people that if Meadows struggled for a couple games not to call for a back-up because they wanted him. Here we go again 4 games into the season requesting another QB, so in short my prediction was right. :lol:

CraigMack
10-05-2005, 02:51 PM
We all see that Meadows is struggling, but I can remember back last year when DT was playing, everyone wanted to see Meadows.

That may be true about some but it was definitely not the case with "everyone".

TrojanWar
10-05-2005, 02:53 PM
What a bunch of bunk. I don't remember 90% calling for DT's head. I think we were all much happier with DT than we were with Leak. There were a couple of people that wanted to see Carl play, but the majority did not. If you can't tell Carl has no business playing QB 4 games into this season, then you are flat out blind. It took me 1 game to see we were in trouble with Carl, and that was in a winning effort.

DT is gone so I could care less about what he could do for us this year. I would like to see someone else get some game experience. Let's just say the others are not doing well in practice and that's why they are not playing. Sometimes guys perform well in a real game and not in practice and vice versa. We won't know until we try. I just hate leaving Carl in when he is obviously hurting our chances of winning.

Hector
10-05-2005, 03:17 PM
There were indeed two or three posters who, last year on this site, were pushing for Meadows to start over DT, even claiming that he was a better passer, and that he didn't have the ego problems that DT, etc etc. Ego aside, you sure don't see those posters boosting Meadows anymore, do you?

TrojanFan2
10-05-2005, 03:35 PM
There are a lot of people on that team that can make the quarterback look bad. A lineman can miss a block or not do it well and that is the lane the QB needed to throw in for his primary reciever. A back can miss picking up a defensive end or linebacker on a blitz. A reciever has to read defenses too and adjust to what the secondary will give him at the same time the QB is doing it. It's not just the QB looking confused. Unless you know what play was called and the protection called and the routes the receivers are supposed to run you can't say the QB messed up. There are too many moving parts at the same time. Plus the fact that some 300 pounder is trying to rip your head off if he get his hands on you is normally a distraction.

I think Meadows is a better QB than DT was. He's not Heisman material but he isn't bad either. Most of the time I see him, he is making his reads and throwing to what appears to be the proper reciever. But like I said there are a lot of things that can happen to throw the timing off for the whole play. I don't know what play and protection scheme was called so I can't judge why it goes wrong. I can only cheer when it goes right.

CraigMack
10-05-2005, 03:43 PM
There are a lot of people on that team that can make the quarterback look bad. A lineman can miss a block or not do it well and that is the lane the QB needed to throw in for his primary reciever. A back can miss picking up a defensive end or linebacker on a blitz. A reciever has to read defenses too and adjust to what the secondary will give him at the same time the QB is doing it. It's not just the QB looking confused. Unless you know what play was called and the protection called and the routes the receivers are supposed to run you can't say the QB messed up. There are too many moving parts at the same time. Plus the fact that some 300 pounder is trying to rip your head off if he get his hands on you is normally a distraction.

I think Meadows is a better QB than DT was. He's not Heisman material but he isn't bad either. Most of the time I see him, he is making his reads and throwing to what appears to be the proper reciever. But like I said there are a lot of things that can happen to throw the timing off for the whole play. I don't know what play and protection scheme was called so I can't judge why it goes wrong. I can only cheer when it goes right.

There is such a thing as being fair to the guy and then there's burying your head in the sand.

TSUWhiner
10-05-2005, 03:46 PM
Ok there are goods and bads with Carl

1. I noticed that in the first 4 games that he stays in the pocket and doesnt scramble..but he is patient..but also gets sacked?

2. Last night I noticed he scrambled more to avoid the sack..but he missed 3 open recievers on that one play..and we all noticed that the announcers said the operation was not together

3. my colleagues at work are all from different texas schools (UT-Pan AM, UT Corpus, UT in Austin, and UT El Paso)..they watched the game and noticed how both offenses were pathetic..no rhythm..even our ground game..as good as it looks..they admitted should have scored more points

good game, good win, lets win all out please :) i want to go bowling this year in the Lafeyette bowl :)

Whiner

TrojanWar
10-05-2005, 03:59 PM
There are a lot of people on that team that can make the quarterback look bad. A lineman can miss a block or not do it well and that is the lane the QB needed to throw in for his primary reciever. A back can miss picking up a defensive end or linebacker on a blitz. A reciever has to read defenses too and adjust to what the secondary will give him at the same time the QB is doing it. It's not just the QB looking confused.

Let's see, what was it they said last night? Something about Meadows not being able to see all the open receivers in white jerseys on a green field when he had great protection. Receivers were open all night long, Meadows just can't find them. The o-line did a good job so don't try to put most of the blame on them. The RB's did excellent and the FB's were blocking great for Carl. When the announcers start laughing at our QB, you know there is a problem. The last two games on TV, the announcers have said Carl sucks. What more evidence do you need? He can't play the QB position. He does not resemble a QB in any way other than the fact that he's in the spot where a QB should be. Give it up. He has to go.

fiesty_red
10-05-2005, 04:42 PM
Meadows is without doubt the worst QB I have ever seen at Troy, perhas the worst I've ever seen period at the college level. He cannot throw the ball. He literally could not hit the broad side of a barn. I think one of the announcers even said something to that effect. On one play last night where he scrambled, I counted 3 receivers open and he didn't see one. How could the coaches be worried about shaking his confidence when if he has any sense at all, he should realize how terrible he is. Give the other guys a chance. I don't see how it could be physically possible that they could be any worse than Meadows.

tsu59
10-05-2005, 04:42 PM
I'm surprised at everybody - the O outscored Leodis last night - what else do you want - in fact the O has scored 5 TDs in the last 4 games - next you'll be crying about the O not scoring at lest 2 TDs per game - geezzz :?

TroyPremier
10-05-2005, 05:24 PM
Meadows is without doubt the worst QB I have ever seen at Troy, perhas the worst I've ever seen period at the college level. He cannot throw the ball. He literally could not hit the broad side of a barn. I think one of the announcers even said something to that effect. On one play last night where he scrambled, I counted 3 receivers open and he didn't see one. How could the coaches be worried about shaking his confidence when if he has any sense at all, he should realize how terrible he is. Give the other guys a chance. I don't see how it could be physically possible that they could be any worse than Meadows.

You really think he is worse than Hansell Bearden? :lol:

CraigMack
10-05-2005, 05:42 PM
[quote="TroyPremier
You really think he is worse than Hansell Bearden? :lol:[/quote]


Me and the Mrs. had that very discussion last night and as disappointed as I am thus far with Meadows there is no way that I am saying that he's worse than Hansell Bearden.

btrojan
10-05-2005, 05:48 PM
I am sure Carl is a nice guy, and I am glad his family is posting on the board, but how anyone can
say he deserves to be in after the last few games is beyond me. We handed off so much at the end because of our lack of confidence in his passing. Don't blame the o line they played very well last night. He is not a QB that belongs on the field the way he is playing. Note that he is a junior so growing pains give us nothing, unlike north texas and their freshman QB

Nice Trojan
10-05-2005, 07:03 PM
Meadows is without doubt the worst QB I have ever seen at Troy, perhas the worst I've ever seen period at the college level.

My vote goes to Adam Russell.......i think that was his name. He was the transfer from MSU or Ole Miss or something. Now he was an awful QB.

I saw some signs last night that Meadows is listening to his coaches. Only problem, he isn't learning. Just listening. The signs were that he scrambled a little bit. The counter to that is he quit looking downfield. Then I also saw him throw it away one time. Counter to that is, he did it too early in my opinion. So he is doing some of the things he is being told. Now he needs to put all the scrambling, the passing, the throwing it away, the time management etc. all together and then he may eventually somehow become an ok QB.

TrojanWar
10-05-2005, 07:18 PM
I am sure Carl is a nice guy, and I am glad his family is posting on the board, but how anyone can say he deserves to be in after the last few games is beyond me.

Did I miss something? Who is related to Carl that has posted on the board? Was that a joke that I missed?

Confused?????????????

goe1975
10-05-2005, 07:18 PM
We all see that Meadows is struggling, but I can remember back last year when DT was playing, everyone wanted to see Meadows.

That may be true about some but it was definitely not the case with "everyone".

Amen

nasupporter
10-05-2005, 07:28 PM
Meadows has no confidence to shatter,, so letting him stand on the side for a series or two wouldn't do anything to hurt his self esteem right now. (especially if he reads this board)
He plays like someone about to have a nervous breakdown. I really believe he is afraid to throw for fear of a turnover etc.. A good Q.B. coach could help in this situation. I think Meadows should relax take a deep breath and try to enjoy himself. I think he probably could be a good Q.B. in time. Do we have the time???
Having said this,,, Coaches are going to put the best people on the field. There is no doubt in my mind that the coaching staff feels Meadows is our best choice at this point,,perhaps in practice he is the best. It does take patience with players like him,,but again Do we have the time? If he is not the man,, then a change will be made. It will happen out of necessity.
But at least we have a win in the conference and something to build on. Practice will be better this week and hopefully some confidence will settle in. Just an opinion from an observer and fan. GO TROJANS ! ! !

troymarkus
10-06-2005, 08:40 AM
That is the exact problem. There is no one better to put on the field. Isn't that a sad commentary of where we are at that position? I think there is good talent in the freshman class, but it would be even worse putting a true freshman out there right now with no college experience. I think what the coaching staff is trying to do is just get by with Carl and begin building the position next year...does that plan sound familiar?!

If we lose a conference game or two and have no chance at a bowl, I imagine you'll see them make a change to a younger QB to build for next season. If we keep winning with the ground game, then Carl will remain the QB.

I agree with others--Carl is bad, but at least he's better than Hansell!

tsu59
10-06-2005, 08:58 AM
I'm reluctant to blame CM for the offense - or the lack of it - QBs have come and gone but the O is about the same as it was 5 years ago - maybe some small improvements along the way but nothing to brag about.

So why is the defense good year in and year out - last year as good as any - but the offense is sorry year in and year out :?:

Troy85
10-06-2005, 09:06 AM
I would have to agree that Carl is a much better QB than HB. Afterall, how do you go from starting for a 1A team, to third string on a D2 team? However, if we had a REAL quaterback coach, not a former punter, I think things would be alot different. CM has potential, its just whether or not or QB "coach" can bring it out.

TrojanWar
10-06-2005, 09:15 AM
CM has potential, its just whether or not or QB "coach" can bring it out.

I agree, Carl has the potential to ruin our season.

Hector
10-06-2005, 09:16 AM
I think Meadows is a better QB than DT was

I couldn't disagree more with you. DT was, deservedly, a Rivals top 100 QB. Carl wasn't close to that level. DT was a true freshman when he played, yet showed us a ton more athletic abilty that Meadows. DT's statistics in the passing area weren't great, but Carl's are simply abysmal. Quit drinking that koolaid.

FRED_of_TROY
10-06-2005, 09:19 AM
I think Meadows is a better QB than DT was

I couldn't disagree more with you. DT was, deservedly, a Rivals top 100 QB. Carl wasn't close to that level. DT was a true freshman when he played, yet showed us a ton more athletic abilty that Meadows. DT's statistics in the passing area weren't great, but Carl's are simply abysmal. Quit drinking that koolaid.

Does that really matter, though?? In case ya'll have yet to notice this, DT is not on the team now!

Geez.

Tums
10-06-2005, 09:27 AM
Meadows in the NT game did not find the open reciever, but he did not just through the ball up for grabs like some QB's in the past. There is alot to be said for a QB that does not lose the game by reckless play. The first step to winning a game is to not lose it with poor decisions. The one INT was a tipped ball by 2 of Troys players on a pass that was a little behind the TE/T. I for one am atleast glad we have left the HB days where the QB would through INT's to avoid the sack. Meadows did atleast tuck the ball and get a few first downs instead of turning the ball over. While he did not make the good decision he also did not make the stupid decision that would cost Troy the WIN.

btrojan
10-06-2005, 09:54 AM
The fact is that defenses are going to stack the line and stop the run and make us pass, NT did in the red zone. We can not win out with out being able to throw the ball every once in a while.

TrojanWar
10-06-2005, 10:34 AM
Meadows in the NT game did not find the open reciever, but he did not just through the ball up for grabs like some QB's in the past.

Yes, he had defenders all over him when he threw that ball towards the end zone. He had no business throwing it.


I for one am at least glad we have left the HB days where the QB would through INT's to avoid the sack.

We have? Since when? I'm not going to argue which QB was worse, but Carl is still doing this so it doesn't matter. So they both suck. What can Troy do to remedy the situation? That's the point here. Not how Carl measures up to QB's of yesteryear.

TrojanFan2
10-06-2005, 10:58 AM
An outstanding QB can certainly provide the spark for the offense engine. But it's not all him. Meadows has had two games with 200 yards, one with 164 (UAB and 4 int) and one with 99 (USC) and only 40 with NT. We all knew the O-line needed work after the Cal-Poly game. They finally came together at NT. It's a team effort. Meadows is making mistakes. We run about 60 plays per game. Meadows messes up in 4 or 5 of them. If no one else messed up there would be 50 plays that should go for a touchdown everyone game.

Look at NT --- for the past two years they've had the NCAA leading rushers. Now they are both on the ssame team and not doing much at all because the O-line is all different and not blocking the same way (if at all). Plus their QB wasn't much of a passing threat either.

The QB is the most visible player on the field, especially when passing, and he gets all the attention. He has to have thick skin to be a leader. I still think some are passing judgement too quickly that he is terrible. We are better at that position than we have been for 3 years. DT isn't here and yes he was very athletic but he didn't light up the scoreboard either. Meadows isn't the best QB in football or even in the Sun Belt, but I think he has enough abiility to help us win games.

TSUWhiner
10-06-2005, 11:11 AM
WEll..you know Carl isnt too bad in my opinion. At least he isnt as worse as what we have had in the past? We certainly have improved in overall passing yards I would think..but then again??? are we rebuilding ever f-ing her?

TrojanWar
10-06-2005, 11:48 AM
We run about 60 plays per game. Meadows messes up in 4 or 5 of them. If no one else messed up there would be 50 plays that should go for a touchdown everyone game.

Sorry, but Meadows is messing up more than 4 or 5 plays a game. WAY more. He can't read his receivers. That is a huge problem for a QB and many never get it. That's what makes a great QB. Either he has it or he doesn't, and Carl doesn't. Look at Matt Leinart. He is not a good scrambler at all. He is a leader and has an uncanny ability to read his receivers, the defense, and watch his blockers all at the same time. That's why he is so successful. He can see the entire field all at once. I'm not saying we will ever have a Matt Leinart, but we need someone with the ability to see the field and make good decisions. That's what it takes to win ball games consistantly on offense (in a passing system). Any High School QB can hand the ball off to the RB.

So Carl had some decent yardage numbers against UAB. He also had the 4 picks...because he's just throwing it up and hoping someone catches it. He's wreckless. It doesn't help that MF has him throwing 40 and 50 yard bombs either. That's just asking for trouble at this point.

dfarr
10-06-2005, 12:30 PM
jay barker wasnt a great qb, based on talent. his offers out of high school were from uat and samford. but, what he didnt do was mess up. he never put up great numbers, but he made passes when he needed to and didnt turn the ball over a lot. yall dont need meadows to win the game w/ his arm, u just dont need him to lose the game with his arm.

JaredMc
10-06-2005, 12:43 PM
And there is no guarantee that he won't.

ksdtrojan
10-07-2005, 08:09 AM
Meadows is without doubt the worst QB I have ever seen at Troy, perhas the worst I've ever seen period at the college level.

My vote goes to Adam Russell.......i think that was his name. He was the transfer from MSU or Ole Miss or something. Now he was an awful QB.

I saw some signs last night that Meadows is listening to his coaches. Only problem, he isn't learning. Just listening. The signs were that he scrambled a little bit. The counter to that is he quit looking downfield. Then I also saw him throw it away one time. Counter to that is, he did it too early in my opinion. So he is doing some of the things he is being told. Now he needs to put all the scrambling, the passing, the throwing it away, the time management etc. all together and then he may eventually somehow become an ok QB.

My high school coach used to say "Throw it to your momma if you're in trouble." The only problem with that is momma can't score touchdowns. Hit the open receivers down field.

The announcers said, after the long pass he threw to Smokey Hampton, they understood why he was in at QB because he threw the ball 60+ yards on that one play. BUT if he is not accurate it does not matter how hard or far he can throw it.

TrojanFan2
10-07-2005, 08:41 AM
[quote="Nice Trojan"][quote=fiesty_red]The announcers said, after the long pass he threw to Smokey Hampton, they understood why he was in at QB because he threw the ball 60+ yards on that one play. BUT if he is not accurate it does not matter how hard or far he can throw it.

I thought Hampton should have caught that pass. Looked like he quite running and slowed down.

nasupporter
10-07-2005, 10:12 AM
[quote=Nice Trojan][quote=fiesty_red]The announcers said, after the long pass he threw to Smokey Hampton, they understood why he was in at QB because he threw the ball 60+ yards on that one play. BUT if he is not accurate it does not matter how hard or far he can throw it.

I thought Hampton should have caught that pass. Looked like he quite running and slowed down.

I agree, I thought it was a catchable ball and if he would have caught it then we all wouldn't be harping on Meadows as bad as we are. (even though he missed several more wide open receivers).. We wouldn't be pushing him for MVP but at least he could hold his head up.. poor guy must really be down in the dumps. I think he plays too up-tight and plays like he is near a nervous breakdown..loosen up Carl and it will fall in place. Your Q.B. coach should be telling you these things hopefully.

BMarkey
10-07-2005, 12:52 PM
That ball bounced right off Hampton's hands. He misjudged it and slowed down. He should have caught it anyway. It was alomost like he didn't expected it to hit his hands.

Meadows was right on in that play.

CraigMack
10-07-2005, 01:29 PM
.. poor guy must really be down in the dumps. I think he plays too up-tight and plays like he is near a nervous breakdown..loosen up Carl and it will fall in place. Your Q.B. coach should be telling you these things hopefully.[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head. He is very nervous in the pocket and looks like he's completely gun-shy...very uptight looking. This is a lot of the reason for his problem as he appears to be thinking too much instead of reacting and playing the game.

I'm not in love with Meadows as the Troy QB by any stretch but I would like to see him calm down and PLAY the game instead of over-analyzing himself and freezing up as he has been prone to do thus far...leave the analyzing to the coaches.

The kid has a good arm and could be a good QB, for us, if he would just relaz a little bit. He looks like he's so afraid to make a mistake that he is suffering from "paralysis by analysis"...he needs to toughen up.

BTW, I would like to see Dockery get a little more pt and given a chance to prove himself but I'm not the coach and I'm sure they're doing what they feel is best. However, I don't want us to get into one of those seasons where it appears that we are going with Meadows "come hell or high water" as we did one season with Bearden.

The progression of the running game will definitely take some of the pressure off of the QB's but we are gonna have to be able to throw the ball with more efficiency in order for the offense to realize it's potential.

The good news is that the defense should be able to throttle every Sun Belt team remaining on the schedule at least to some extent.

ksdtrojan
10-07-2005, 09:59 PM
I agree Smokey should have caught that deep pass but I am tired of seeing us throw the ball deep every play. I know the receivers are running other routes but it seems the only routes he sees are the deep routes. We don't need a hero at QB just a player to play with consistency and be able to read the defense and check to plays that will work against what he sees.