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trojanbrutha
02-03-2012, 01:46 PM
Since Lego didn't have time to start this thread, being the guy I am, I thought it best to help him along with it. If no one knew this, he and a few other Trojan fans feel that he should be "relieved of his coaching duties" from the TROY staff. To keep from side-tracking every, single thread for the remainder of the off-season, this is dedicated to them and should be "stickied" so they can whine in an organized fashion. :thumb:

Lego
02-03-2012, 02:39 PM
Since Lego didn't have time to start this thread, being the guy I am, I thought it best to help him along with it. If no one knew this, he and a few other Trojan fans feel that he should be "relieved of his coaching duties" from the TROY staff. To keep from side-tracking every, single thread for the remainder of the off-season, this is dedicated to them and should be "stickied" so they can whine in an organized fashion. :thumb:

Again. Have stated the following from the beginning:

- Defense has been at the bottom in the nation for the last three years. Can't blame the kids, must take responsibilty for what you get paid for.
- Jeremy is a solid guy, why wouldn't you move him to the DB coach/recruiting (for the obvious reason he was good at coaching DB, this is something he is good at, proven) and bring in a dedicated DC which is a position that JR has struggled at for awhile now.

Any of this incorrect ?

troymarkus
02-03-2012, 04:36 PM
I was at one point in agreement with this idea. However, after having cooled off from the frustration of the season and looking at the bigger picture, I have to say I can't disagree more. I think we have the right coaches in place at this point (still have one to add), and I think we now have the right player personnel in place to be very successful. Time will tell, but I believe in Coach Blakeney's judgment on his staff.

Let the flaming begin.

trojanbrutha
02-03-2012, 04:50 PM
I was at one point in agreement with this idea. However, after having cooled off from the frustration of the season and looking at the bigger picture, I have to say I can't disagree more. I think we have the right coaches in place at this point (still have one to add), and I think we now have the right player personnel in place to be very successful. Time will tell, but I believe in Coach Blakeney's judgment on his staff.

Let the flaming begin.

He won't flame you, but he'll try his best to "sarcasm" you to death :laughing021:

Lego
02-03-2012, 04:58 PM
:thumb: deleted

Go Troy !

Lego
02-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Time will tell, but I believe in Coach Blakeney's judgment.


Agree, CLB will turn it around. Offense will average 50 next year and the Trojan Scoring Machine will be in full effect. Looking forward to out distancing UAB 1st and then beating Mississippi State in a barn burner

BDM88
02-03-2012, 05:20 PM
UGH! Can we please lock this thread and MOVE ON FROM THE JR CRAP! Both sides of the argument are pointless at this point. GET OVER IT AND LET"S GO TORJANS!

Cane gone Trojan
02-03-2012, 06:18 PM
There is one thing about the defense that i do know....There is not alot of room to get much worse and a whole lot of room to get better....who knows, with JR at DC....Troy might just move into the top 100 this year.

Discophobia
02-03-2012, 09:30 PM
You defenders are so lame, what are you defending. Our defense has stunk for the last 3-4 years. It's a fact. Jeremy has been the defensive coordinator of these suckish defenses. End of story, somehow in the world you guys live in there is no accountability when it comes to Jeremy. I dont get it, but whatever.

trojanbrutha
02-03-2012, 09:49 PM
Jorrick Calvin, one and done, that forced Valcin to play CB...Eugene Kinlaw, One and done, guys not getting their lesson...Chip Reeves missed the GMAC Bowl...injuries...Valcin missed a whole season. Guys playing before they were ready. Now, I've said it before, TROY has been snake-bit and there's enough blame to go around, but to single out one person in this fiasco is laughable... There is no single point-of-failure in last season or the previous 2 or 3. But, of course, that's just my opinion.

GoTroyGo1
02-06-2012, 12:49 AM
We have one of the worst "D's" in the FBS. Rowell coaches the defense. I wasn't a math major, but I know how to put 2 and 2 together....

Troy87
02-06-2012, 07:11 AM
We have one of the worst "D's" in the FBS. Rowell coaches the defense. I wasn't a math major, but I know how to put 2 and 2 together....

Well, I have a Math minor, and I know you can't use simple math to solve the problem. You have to use algebra, because there are multiple variable equations that make the answer much more difficult than 2 + 2.

And since JR also has a Bachelors degree in Math and Science, I'm sure he is well aware of that too.

trojanbrutha
02-06-2012, 07:32 AM
We have one of the worst "D's" in the FBS. Rowell coaches the defense. I wasn't a math major, but I know how to put 2 and 2 together....


Well, I have a Math minor, and I know you can't use simple math to solve the problem. You have to use algebra, because there are multiple variable equations that make the answer much more difficult than 2 + 2.

And since JR also has a Bachelors degree in Math and Science, I'm sure he is well aware of that too.

You have my permission to enshrine these comments into the HOF...:laughing021:

GoTroyGo1
02-06-2012, 03:00 PM
Occum's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually correct until proven false. Who says football doesn't teach you about life?

Hemi Man
02-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Well, I have a Math minor, and I know you can't use simple math to solve the problem. You have to use algebra, because there are multiple variable equations that make the answer much more difficult than 2 + 2.

And since JR also has a Bachelors degree in Math and Science, I'm sure he is well aware of that too.

Keep it up with comments like this and you will have a seat at our table at Sisters this Sunday.

GoTroyGo1
02-06-2012, 03:17 PM
Economics: There is a demand for a new defensive coach at Troy University, who will supply the necessary capital?

Lego
02-06-2012, 04:04 PM
Economics: There is a demand for a new defensive coach at Troy University, who will supply the necessary capital?

Is this a true issue for this situation ? Troy University or it's legal fundraising arms/boosters do not have the necessary funds for any more or new coaches.

Was the firing of Mo Crain and/or lack of any other coaching changes due to the pure economics ?

I guess this is a true legitimate question. To put it simply, Maybe we are broke and until someone ponys up nothing can happen even if they do or don't want it to.

Troy87
02-06-2012, 04:20 PM
Occum's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually correct until proven false. Who says football doesn't teach you about life?

First: Occam's Razor

Second: The priciple states that when there are competing hypotheses, selecting the one with the fewest new assumptions usually is the correct one. There have been many facts identified by both sides of this debate, but there have been many assumptions made by both sides as well. That makes this a very difficult subject to arrive at a conclusive solution, especially when none of the debaters is employed by the University as a member of the coaching staff, and therefore makes it impossible to arrive at which hypothesis has the fewest new assumptions. Ergo; Occam's Razor is almost impossible to apply to this situation (we aren't looking at a box with a cat in it).

Third: The introduction of the query, "Who says football doesn't teach you about life", is not only irrelevant, but defeats the original posit that Occam's Razor simplifies the question. Life is not simple.....so if football (as you infer) teaches you about life......football is not simple. This would be the transitive property of equality. The only thing that can change this is to prove that life is simple. Life, nor football, are as simple as 2 + 2.

Troy87
02-06-2012, 04:33 PM
Economics: There is a demand for a new defensive coach at Troy University, who will supply the necessary capital?

Demand has not yet out-stripped the supply. Until that occurs, the market will bear the most reasonable solution on the price curve.

One must also know the market from which demand is derived. If demand is coming from a set of potential customers without a reasonable net margin, a consistent revenue stream, and supportable long-term gains, then the non-recurring costs required to change the supplier's product pardigm exceeds that which can be made from the short-term gains.

Lego
02-06-2012, 04:38 PM
Demand has not yet out-stripped the supply. Until that occurs, the market will bear the most reasonable solution on the price curve.

One must also know the market from which demand is derived. If demand is coming from a set of potential customers without a reasonable net margin, a consistent revenue stream, and supportable long-term gains, then the non-recurring costs required to change the supplier's product pardigm exceeds that which can be made from the short-term gains.

Using this set of macro-economic priniciples and applying it to the question of whether or not Troy has enough money for new coaches is indeed a question unto itself.

Does Troy University or it's legal fundraising arms/boosters do not have the necessary funds for any more or new coaches ?

Was the firing of Mo Crain and/or lack of any other coaching changes due to the pure economics ?

Is Troy broke and until someone ponys up nothing can happen even if they do or don't want it to. Maybe ?

Lego
02-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Occum's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually correct until proven false. Who says football doesn't teach you about life?


First: Occam's Razor

Second: The priciple states that when there are competing hypotheses, selecting the one with the fewest new assumptions usually is the correct one. There have been many facts identified by both sides of this debate, but there have been many assumptions made by both sides as well. That makes this a very difficult subject to arrive at a conclusive solution, especially when none of the debaters is employed by the University as a member of the coaching staff, and therefore makes it impossible to arrive at which hypothesis has the fewest new assumptions. Ergo; Occam's Razor is almost impossible to apply to this situation (we aren't looking at a box with a cat in it).

Third: The introduction of the query, "Who says football doesn't teach you about life", is not only irrelevant, but defeats the original posit that Occam's Razor simplifies the question. Life is not simple.....so if football (as you infer) teaches you about life......football is not simple. This would be the transitive property of equality. The only thing that can change this is to prove that life is simple. Life, nor football, are as simple as 2 + 2.

Excellent Post.

BUT, maybe he was trying to say, Troy is making the situation too complex. Go back to the "see ball, hit ball" philosophy.

Life is indeed as complex as you make it

Go to the highest possible level, identify the problem, fix it or replace it.

GoTroyGo1
02-07-2012, 03:30 AM
The vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the Sun Belt Conference would tell you Rowell is a sub par coach for FBS college football. He wouldn't last a week in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. That is why they won the last two titles. We can't hire an SEC caliber coach( Arky St really lucked out), that being said, there must be somebody better we could hire. It is a matter of finances to a great extent.

Hemi Man
02-07-2012, 09:37 AM
The vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the Sun Belt Conference would tell you Rowell is a sub par coach for FBS college football. He wouldn't last a week in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. That is why they won the last two titles. We can't hire an SEC caliber coach( Arky St really lucked out), that being said, there must be somebody better we could hire. It is a matter of finances to a great extent.

Really? Who are these people with this wealth of knowledge? Were any of them at the coaches conference this past month?

Troy87
02-07-2012, 10:34 AM
The vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the Sun Belt Conference would tell you Rowell is a sub par coach for FBS college football. He wouldn't last a week in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. That is why they won the last two titles. We can't hire an SEC caliber coach( Arky St really lucked out), that being said, there must be somebody better we could hire. It is a matter of finances to a great extent.

This appears to be opinion rather than authoratative evidence. The "vast majority" consists of what domain of people? What is your basis for the statement he wouldn't last at Tuscaloosa or Auburn? Are there quoted representatives of these schools that have made that assertion?

As for an SEC caliber coach, what defines an SEC caliber coach? How much he is paid? How much exposure he gets? Or do the caliber of players that come to those schools define the performance of the coaching staff?

The hypothetical is this; If we had the same players Alabama had on defense, would our defense be better? I would say they would. Would they be better because of the coach? That's where the question really lies. And finally, do we expect to have players at Troy like they have in Tuscaloosa or Auburn? If so, there will be some folks experiencing a lot of disappoinment.

The obvious rebuttal to this is that our defense doesn't measure up to the Sunbelt defenses, nor do they measure up to Troy's past defenses.

I say yes and no. It is true when compared to defenses of the past and those current Sunbelt defenses, we are not performing as well as we have previously. My opinion as to why this is, is not that coaching has gotten worse, but that we haven't continued to improve the quality of the players we get. I think the last few years we have gotten the same type players we have always gotten, while other teams have gotten players better than they used to get.

Yes, I think coaches have responsibility for those choices, but I think the 5 championships, perhaps made the staff a bit complacent, and maybe not in the best position to see that others were coming up on us from behind.

The result.....3-9 season.

The response......this recruiting class was, IMO, much better than we have been given credit for, however, that's not all of the picture. I think the coaching staff has seen that they have to step up and re-dedicate themselves to continuous improvement, which I think also had slipped into a level of complacency. I expect this to be a vastly different season from the last two or three.

Lego
02-07-2012, 12:13 PM
The vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the Sun Belt Conference would tell you Rowell is a sub par coach for FBS college football. He wouldn't last a week in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. That is why they won the last two titles. We can't hire an SEC caliber coach( Arky St really lucked out), that being said, there must be somebody better we could hire. It is a matter of finances to a great extent.


This appears to be opinion rather than authoratative evidence. The "vast majority" consists of what domain of people? What is your basis for the statement he wouldn't last at Tuscaloosa or Auburn? Are there quoted representatives of these schools that have made that assertion?

As for an SEC caliber coach, what defines an SEC caliber coach? How much he is paid? How much exposure he gets? Or do the caliber of players that come to those schools define the performance of the coaching staff?

The hypothetical is this; If we had the same players Alabama had on defense, would our defense be better? I would say they would. Would they be better because of the coach? That's where the question really lies. And finally, do we expect to have players at Troy like they have in Tuscaloosa or Auburn? If so, there will be some folks experiencing a lot of disappoinment.

The obvious rebuttal to this is that our defense doesn't measure up to the Sunbelt defenses, nor do they measure up to Troy's past defenses.

I say yes and no. It is true when compared to defenses of the past and those current Sunbelt defenses, we are not performing as well as we have previously. My opinion as to why this is, is not that coaching has gotten worse, but that we haven't continued to improve the quality of the players we get. I think the last few years we have gotten the same type players we have always gotten, while other teams have gotten players better than they used to get.

Yes, I think coaches have responsibility for those choices, but I think the 5 championships, perhaps made the staff a bit complacent, and maybe not in the best position to see that others were coming up on us from behind.

The result.....3-9 season.

The response......this recruiting class was, IMO, much better than we have been given credit for, however, that's not all of the picture. I think the coaching staff has seen that they have to step up and re-dedicate themselves to continuous improvement, which I think also had slipped into a level of complacency. I expect this to be a vastly different season from the last two or three.

87,
To be fair, is there any "evidence" (based on history or not) that he could survive anywhere else.

To be fair also, if Troy had Bama players on it's team of course we would dominate, but our foes are steps down from the SEC.

Finally, the following is where alot of disconnect is: you said "but that we haven't continued to improve the quality of the players we get."
A bunch of Troy supporters on here defend this as "not the Coaches fault", (shifting the issues to cursory topics instead) where the other segement of Troy Supporters here fully believe this is indeed the coaches responsibility and should be judged on it.

Troy87
02-07-2012, 01:57 PM
87,
To be fair, is there any "evidence" (based on history or not) that we could survive anywhere else.

To be fair also, if Troy had Bama players on it's team of course we would dominate, but our foes are steps down from the SEC.

Of course we could not survive in an AQ conference, but the resources we have are relevant to where we are hierarchially in FBS, and we could survive in another mid-major conference.

The point is that a coach at the Sunbelt level could coach just as capably at the SEC level, and vice versa, because the talent level of the players is comparable to the relative level and resources of the school.

Where would we be if we had a "Boone Pickens" infusing about $150M into the University and then another $150M into the Athletic Department? Would we still be in the Sunbelt? Would we attract better players with improved facilities?



Finally, the following is where alot of disconnect is: you said "but that we haven't continued to improve the quality of the players we get."
A bunch of Troy supporters on here defend this as "not the Coaches fault", (shifting the issues to cursory topics instead) where the other segement of Troy Supporters here fully believe this is indeed the coaches responsibility and should be judged on it.

It's indefensible to say the coaches are not at fault. The coaching staff must be culpable in some way.

The issue I have is that "a bunch of Troy supporters" on here are taking the path of least resistance and pointing at the Defense as the sole culprit for the team's issues, and further, they point to JR as being the sole the problem for the defensive issues, which I contend, is not the case. There are 4 defensive coaches, there are 4 1/2 offensive coaches, 1/2 a special teams coach, and 1 head coach. They all have a piece of the "blame" pie in front of them.

I believe the problems have slowly evolved over the last few years, building up like water behind a dam. This past season, the dam couldn't hold it back anymore. Everything that could go wrong, did, and like the cartoon where the character keeps putting fingers and toes in each leak that spurts out, eventually, there's more leaks than fingers and toes.

This staff appears to me to have gotten the wake-up call, and it sounds like they are motivated to right the ship and get things moving back in the right direction.

GoTroyGo1
02-07-2012, 02:17 PM
What AQ school's fan base would put up with this guy? I challenge anyone here to name a single school that has offered him a job. It's funny several of our coaches have moved on to other institutions, yet he seems to have never had any phone calls from suitors......

Lego
02-07-2012, 02:22 PM
The point is that a coach at the Sunbelt level could coach just as capably at the SEC level, and vice versa, because the talent level of the players is comparable to the relative level and resources of the school.

And you believe JR would succeed at the SEC level as a DC ?
By the way, I believe he would succeed greatly at the SEC level as a position coach.


Where would we be if we had a "Boone Pickens" infusing about $150M into the University and then another $150M into the Athletic Department? Would we still be in the Sunbelt? Would we attract better players with improved facilities?

Agree. I asked before. Legitimately,

Does Troy University or it's legal fundraising arms/boosters do not have the necessary funds for any more or new coaches ?

Was the firing of Mo Crain and/or lack of any other coaching changes due to the pure economics ?

Is Troy broke and until someone ponys up nothing can happen even if they do or don't want it to?



It's indefensible to say the coaches are not at fault. The coaching staff must be culpable in some way.

I believe the problems have slowly evolved over the last few years, building up like water behind a dam. This past season, the dam couldn't hold it back anymore. Everything that could go wrong, did, and like the cartoon where the character keeps putting fingers and toes in each leak that spurts out, eventually, there's more leaks than fingers and toes.

Problem with the dam analogy: if you see the leaks starting and then seeing them getting worse year after year, and still failing to deal with the tough decisions to correct, That is worse than waiting to deal with the problems when the dam breaks. When the dam breaks, everyone in Troy knows you have a problem and must address. Waiting until it collapses shows the issues are even more serious.


This staff appears to me to have gotten the wake-up call, and it sounds like they are motivated to right the ship and get things moving back in the right direction.

I hope so. But as you stated before even if the Offense gets back on track and scores 50 every game, it would be acceptable if the defense gives up 48 every game. Which is crazy in my mind.

Troy87
02-07-2012, 02:22 PM
What AQ school's fan base would put up with this guy? I challenge anyone here to name a single school that has offered him a job. It's funny several of our coaches have moved on to other institutions, yet he seems to have never had any phone calls from suitors......

But there are more coaches that have not gotten those calls than those that have. And who's to say he hasn't? He's been at Troy long enough, he's probably gotten a call or two along the way. Do you have call logs for all our coaches indicating otherwise?

Troy87
02-07-2012, 02:42 PM
And you believe JR would succeed at the SEC level as a DC ?
By the way, I believe he would succeed greatly at the SEC level as a position coach.

I do believe he would be successful at any level. Based on what I have seen, I agree as a position coach, he would be very successful. Until he has been allowed to be just the DC, and not have to be the DB coach too, I think he has done the best he could with an over-flowing plate of responsibility. But I do think he can be very successful at that too.


Agree. I asked
before. Legitimately,

Does Troy University or it's legal fundraising arms/boosters do not have the necessary funds for any more or new coaches ?

Was the firing of Mo Crain and/or lack of any other coaching changes due to the pure economics ?

Is Troy broke and until someone ponys up nothing can happen even if they do or don't want it to?

I do think economics are playing a role in some areas right now, but as for Mo being let go, no, I do not think that was an economical move.

I can't address the amounts available for spending for coaching, as I am not privy to those budgetary processes any more than most anyone else here on the board. I only know the amounts which are reported and gathered by media such as USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2010-coaches-contracts-database.htm


Problem with the dam analogy: if you see the leaks starting and then getting worse year after year, and failing deal with the tough decisions then worse than waiting to deal with the problems when the dam breaks? When the dam breaks, everyone in Troy knows you have a problem and
must address. Waiting until it collapses shows the issues are even more serious.

I don't disagree with this, other than I don't think the collapse is total and catastrophic. I think it is recoverable. But yes, I think there were some shortcomings which were overlooked because we had 5 straight championships.



I hope so
. But as you stated before even if the Offense gets back on track and scores 50 every game, it would be acceptable if the defense gives up 48 every game. Which is crazy in my mind.

I don't think this will be the case I do expect the Offense to get back to its 32-35 points per game this season, and I expect the Defense to be much improved and give up less than the last few years, however, I don't expect us to ever get back to what we were in '02-04. And that's something we'll never see again no matter who is in charge of the Defense.

Lego
02-07-2012, 02:51 PM
And who's to say he hasn't? He's been at Troy long enough, he's probably gotten a call or two along the way.

If indeed he has gotten calls and turned down positions at AQ conference programs, I just find that hard to fathom, turning down higher acheivement.

Lego
02-07-2012, 02:54 PM
I don't disagree with this, other than I don't think the collapse is total and catastrophic. I think it is recoverable. But yes, I think there were some shortcomings which were overlooked because we had 5 straight championships.

3-9 and attendence at the last two home games is way too catastrophic for me. I can't imagine worse, don't make me.



I don't expect us to ever get back to what we were in '02-04. And that's something we'll never see again no matter who is in charge of the Defense.

This makes me sad. Just loved our kick tail defenses back then. I think they put Troy on the map.

redwaver
02-07-2012, 03:45 PM
[
I don't think this will be the case I do expect the Offense to get back to its 32-35 points per game this season, and I expect the Defense to be much improved and give up less than the last few years, however, I don't expect us to ever get back to what we were in '02-04. And that's something we'll never see again no matter who is in charge of the Defense.[/QUOTE]



Just curious, WHY on earth do you not believe we should not be able to accomplish the same level of proficiency defensively as we did on '02-'04? IF we do our jobs recruiting and coaching why should we not be able to compete defensively with our Sun Belt competition? Seems to me the only excuse would be we get out recruited or out coached. There are defensive teams in the BCS that hold teams on their same level (other BCS teams) to a low offensive output and those are usually the teams rated in at the top in their conferences and or the nation. Alabama, LSU, Oklamoma, Florida Penn State, etc. are some examples yearly. Now I surely don't expect Troy to play defensively with these teams, even though we have done it before against a few, but I don't see any reason why we should not expect our defense to hold teams within our own conference to a respectable offensive output and that is not giving up 35+ points per game. For the last few years our offense knew it has to score over 30 points a game to have a chance to win and that is unacceptable to most knowledgable fans. I remember thinking in 2010 that had our offense not been outstanding we could have lost a lot of games. In '09 and '10 our offense won those titles despite the defense. Other SBC teams are getting better and we had better improve with them. There is nothing wrong with winning with defense for a change and IF you happen to have both then good things should come from it.....like more championships. I would just like to see the offense take the field knowing they didn't have to have a career day offensively to have a chance for a win and beating someone 35 to 7 would be wonderful......again.

Hemi Man
02-07-2012, 04:01 PM
[
I don't think this will be the case I do expect the Offense to get back to its 32-35 points per game this season, and I expect the Defense to be much improved and give up less than the last few years, however, I don't expect us to ever get back to what we were in '02-04. And that's something we'll never see again no matter who is in charge of the Defense.




Just curious, WHY on earth do you not believe we should not be able to accomplish the same level of proficiency defensively as we did on '02-'04? IF we do our jobs recruiting and coaching why should we not be able to compete defensively with our Sun Belt competition? Seems to me the only excuse would be we get out recruited or out coached. There are defensive teams in the BCS that hold teams on their same level (other BCS teams) to a low offensive output and those are usually the teams rated in at the top in their conferences and or the nation. Alabama, LSU, Oklamoma, Florida Penn State, etc. are some examples yearly. Now I surely don't expect Troy to play defensively with these teams, even though we have done it before against a few, but I don't see any reason why we should not expect our defense to hold teams within our own conference to a respectable offensive output and that is not giving up 35+ points per game. For the last few years our offense knew it has to score over 30 points a game to have a chance to win and that is unacceptable to most knowledgable fans. I remember thinking in 2010 that had our offense not been outstanding we could have lost a lot of games. In '09 and '10 our offense won those titles despite the defense. Other SBC teams are getting better and we had better improve with them. There is nothing wrong with winning with defense for a change and IF you happen to have both then good things should come from it.....like more championships. I would just like to see the offense take the field knowing they didn't have to have a career day offensively to have a chance for a win and beating someone 35 to 7 would be wonderful......again.

It's my opinion that running a spread offense will cause your defensive numbers to go up. Now that is not to say that there is plenty of room for improvement by our defense, but when you are getting 2 to 4 extra drives per game then obviously your opponent is getting those extra drives as well. Combine that with 3 and outs on offense and a well below average redzone production on offense and you get 3-9. This past season we kept several games close in the 1st half only to fade away in the second half. Some on here would say it was a lack of adjustments. If you go back and look at the time of possession in many of those games it was overwhelmingly in favor of our opponent. Match that with our lack of healthy bodies after road games at Clemson and Arkansas and you get a team that plays hard, but doesn't have enough healthy bodies to maintain that level of defensive production. That is why you see the recruiting class we just had. Depth, and talent that can contribute immediately. That's the plan anyway.

This subject has been beaten to death on here before, but we all have reasons to why we believe what we do, and I seriously doubt any post on this board will change anyone's opinion.

Lego
02-07-2012, 04:15 PM
but I don't see any reason why we should not expect our defense to hold teams within our own conference to a respectable offensive output and that is not giving up 35+ points per game. For the last few years our offense knew it has to score over 30 points a game to have a chance to win and that is unacceptable to most knowledgable fans. I remember thinking in 2010 that had our offense not been outstanding we could have lost a lot of games. In '09 and '10 our offense won those titles despite the defense. Other SBC teams are getting better and we had better improve with them. There is nothing wrong with winning with defense for a change and IF you happen to have both then good things should come from it.....like more championships. I would just like to see the offense take the field knowing they didn't have to have a career day offensively to have a chance for a win and beating someone 35 to 7 would be wonderful......again.

Sounds solid. Nobody could disagree with this ?


It's my opinion that running a spread offense will cause your defensive numbers to go up. Now that is not to say that there is plenty of room for improvement by our defense, but when you are getting 2 to 4 extra drives per game then obviously your opponent is getting those extra drives as well. Combine that with 3 and outs on offense and a well below average redzone production on offense and you get 3-9. This past season we kept several games close in the 1st half only to fade away in the second half. Some on here would say it was a lack of adjustments. If you go back and look at the time of possession in many of those games it was overwhelmingly in favor of our opponent. Match that with our lack of healthy bodies after road games at Clemson and Arkansas and you get a team that plays hard, but doesn't have enough healthy bodies to maintain that level of defensive production. That is why you see the recruiting class we just had. Depth, and talent that can contribute immediately. That's the plan anyway.

This subject has been beaten to death on here before, but we all have reasons to why we believe what we do, and I seriously doubt any post on this board will change anyone's opinion.

In all fairness you named 7 or 8 things that would be "justifications" for our poor defensive perfomance while withholding any sort of culpability against the defensive leadership. That is flawed.

redwaver
02-07-2012, 04:15 PM
It's my opinion that running a spread offense will cause your defensive numbers to go up. Now that is not to say that there is plenty of room for improvement by our defense, but when you are getting 2 to 4 extra drives per game then obviously your opponent is getting those extra drives as well. Combine that with 3 and outs on offense and a well below average redzone production on offense and you get 3-9. This past season we kept several games close in the 1st half only to fade away in the second half. Some on here would say it was a lack of adjustments. If you go back and look at the time of possession in many of those games it was overwhelmingly in favor of our opponent. Match that with our lack of healthy bodies after road games at Clemson and Arkansas and you get a team that plays hard, but doesn't have enough healthy bodies to maintain that level of defensive production. That is why you see the recruiting class we just had. Depth, and talent that can contribute immediately. That's the plan anyway.

This subject has been beaten to death on here before, but we all have reasons to why we believe what we do, and I seriously doubt any post on this board will change anyone's opinion.
I see your point as it related to last year but in '10 we didn't have those problems on offense and we still gave up 30+ points on defense but I agree, no one is going to change their opinions so we will just have to live with it as is and see what '12 brings.

moosicman
02-07-2012, 05:05 PM
I could be wrong but wasn't there an ESPN article a few weeks ago that previewed the coming year that stated how poor Troy's defense has performed over the past several years. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't just some goofwad blogger in his granny's basement shooting out his "sports column". Seems like it was a source we would've all lauded had they anything good to say. I think it even got posted in one of the forums here. I bring that up because like it or not, that may be a far better objective view on Troy's defense than anyone of us on either side of the debate. Hence, it adds legitimacy to the "Troy's defense is sub-par" statement that some cannot see as based on fact (astoundingly).

Hemi Man
02-07-2012, 05:32 PM
I see your point as it related to last year but in '10 we didn't have those problems on offense and we still gave up 30+ points on defense but I agree, no one is going to change their opinions so we will just have to live with it as is and see what '12 brings.

Numbers wise I believe the 10 defense was better than 09, not by much though. Is our DC spread to thin? Are we as talented as we were in the past? Have the other teams caught up to us? Did complacency set in within the staff? If we stay healthy and this class is as good and can contribute now we should se a step in the right direction.

Hemi Man
02-07-2012, 05:52 PM
I see your point as it related to last year but in '10 we didn't have those problems on offense and we still gave up 30+ points on defense but I agree, no one is going to change their opinions so we will just have to live with it as is and see what '12 brings.


I could be wrong but wasn't there an ESPN article a few weeks ago that previewed the coming year that stated how poor Troy's defense has performed over the past several years. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't just some goofwad blogger in his granny's basement shooting out his "sports column". Seems like it was a source we would've all lauded had they anything good to say. I think it even got posted in one of the forums here. I bring that up because like it or not, that may be a far better objective view on Troy's defense than anyone of us on either side of the debate. Hence, it adds legitimacy to the "Troy's defense is sub-par" statement that some cannot see as based on fact (astoundingly).


There was an article on here by Scout.com previewing all the Sun Belt teams. The last football related article on the TroyReport was Oct 11 2011. I wouldn't exactly say they are on top of the happenings at Troy University. The truth is LB has stuck his neck out for his staff and his players for the upcoming 2012 season. If he beleives in them enough to put his tail on the ine I will stand behind him 100%. He is the one that will ultimately be held responsible.

redwaver
02-07-2012, 06:09 PM
There was an article on here by Scout.com previewing all the Sun Belt teams. The last football related article on the TroyReport was Oct 11 2011. I wouldn't exactly say they are on top of the happenings at Troy University. The truth is LB has stuck his neck out for his staff and his players for the upcoming 2012 season. If he beleives in them enough to put his tail on the ine I will stand behind him 100%. He is the one that will ultimately be held responsible.
I admit, I was surprised that LB chose to not do more staff wise than he did. I am not sure what I expected but I thought something would happen other than Mo but if that is where the problem lay or that is the fix then I support his (LB) decision 100%. I am also surprised it has taken so long to replace Mo. Coaches are getting hired every day by other schools we play and we have yet to make our hire....assuming we are going to make one. I am surprised no announcements have been made relative to coaching assignments if any are going to be made. I just hope the coaches also realize how LB has gone out on a limb for them and commit to step it up. It bothers me though that we say HE (LB)will ultimately be held responsible even though the buck does stop at his desk. I think there is enough responsibility to go around to everyone should they agree to accept any of it. I accept the fact that a lot of things went wrong in '11 but if they don't in '12 and things don't get better, that will be VERY hard to explain. I REALLY like LB. He is a class act and a fine coach and I would REALLY hate to see his "neck in the noose" for it. Just one guys opinion!

TrojanEmpire
02-07-2012, 07:44 PM
Are we going to go with the Rowell love/hate fest again? For the love, drop it already. We have figured out who is on what side and why. There is no need to keep saying the same thing a million different ways.

redwaver
02-07-2012, 08:05 PM
Are we going to go with the Rowell love/hate fest again? For the love, drop it already. We have figured out who is on what side and why. There is no need to keep saying the same thing a million different ways.
My comments had NOTHING to do with firing anyone for the 50th time. Reassigning, relieving some duties to free up others, new schemes, whatever but I have said nothing about firing Rowell or anybody else. This is a forum. If you don't like the subject don't read it. Better yet, let us know when you have had enough of any subject and we will be sure to curb our conversation even though we enjoy the discussions. Heavens we wouldn't want you to be unhappy. Read the thread title. It is about the defense you know. Was there a time limit on this thread? Just learning the ropes, there sure seems to be a ton of them when you talk defense. Can we talk offense here? Is it ok to ask about the vacancy? Just give me the rules and I will do my best.....

Hemi Man
02-07-2012, 08:13 PM
My comments had NOTHING to do with firing anyone for the 50th time. Reassigning, relieving some duties to free up others, new schemes, whatever but I have said nothing about firing Rowell or anybody else. This is a forum. If you don't like the subject don't read it. Better yet, let us know when you have had enough of any subject and we will be sure to curb our conversation even though we enjoy the discussions. Heavens we wouldn't want you to be unhappy. Read the thread title. It is about the defense you know. Was there a time limit on this thread? Just learning the ropes, there sure seems to be a ton of them when you talk defense. Can we talk offense here? Is it ok to ask about the vacancy? Just give me the rules and I will do my best.....

Well I kind of thought the discussion was going smoothly.:confused-smiley-004

redwaver
02-07-2012, 08:18 PM
Well I kind of thought the discussion was going smoothly.:confused-smiley-004
I agree Hemi! Don't know why anyone would come on a thread with this title and imply they are fed up with the subject. Answer: If you are tired of a subject/thread, don't go to it and read it. Right? I, for one am satisfied with LB's judgement and I hope Jeremy has a GREAT 2012. Like LB, he is a great guy and I am sure a solid Troy man.

redwaver
02-07-2012, 08:37 PM
Well I kind of thought the discussion was going smoothly.:confused-smiley-004
Hemi, back to the discussion about staff before some fellow got ticked off. Has anything been said about what position coach we are looking for if any? Has there been any movement about relieving JR of the DB coaching duties so he can concentrate on DC? If we are looking for a coach, is there any rumors about who it is? Nothing has been said about who is being looked at to this point. That would be things that fans would be interested in on this forum and it is all positive. Most of us are out of town many are out of county and some of us are out of state so the difference in the flow of information often depends on how close you are to the action. Some things are not going to be in the Dothan paper so this site is the best we have. Some things just have to come by the grapevine so to speak and what is over kill to some is information to others. Asking or wondering about these things is not negative but often a show of interest. However some read this stuff through "stained glasses". Hope we get a good 'un whomever he is!!!

Troy87
02-07-2012, 10:07 PM
I am surprised too that we haven't yet filled the vacant position left by Mo's dismissal. The concern I have about this is that we are continuing with the "more with less" philosophy, and this is the case, it's gone too far. .

Though I don't think his dismissal was as a result of economics, if the trend of leaving vacated positions unfilled as a cost savings, turns out to be the case here, I would be very disappointed with that direction, both with the University and the Athletic Department.

Lego
02-08-2012, 12:24 AM
Concerning having your Defensive Co having additional position coach jobs.

This is indeed the case at most programs. I will admit it is not usually the DB's but to just name a few, Smart @ Alabama, Koenning @ Illini, Johnson @ S. Carolina ( and etc, etc.) all had position coach jobs also. So this is not usual.

BDM88
02-08-2012, 04:30 AM
I am surprised too that we haven't yet filled the vacant position left by Mo's dismissal. The concern I have about this is that we are continuing with the "more with less" philosophy, and this is the case, it's gone too far. .

Though I don't think his dismissal was as a result of economics, if the trend of leaving vacated positions unfilled as a cost savings, turns out to be the case here, I would be very disappointed with that direction, both with the University and the Athletic Department.

87 I agree. But I am going to take it further. If Troy U has to do this to keep us in FBS then what some have said may be a better option. Now before I say it let me make it clear i in no way want to go back. But FCS may be a better option if things keep going down this path. I do not want to be a doormat for every team including the Belt. As I see it with a big chunk of our Alumni giving money elsewhere(I have no fact to prove this but it seems like it is the way it is going) and funds are hard to come by to hire a staff worthy enough of "Big Boy" Football I see it as the best option. But for the love of all that is holy I hope I am not right!

BDM88
02-08-2012, 04:33 AM
Concerning having your Defensive Co having additional position coach jobs.

This is indeed the case at most programs. I will admit it is not usually the DB's but to just name a few, Smart @ Alabama, Koenning @ Illini, Johnson @ S. Carolina ( and etc, etc.) all had position coach jobs also. So this is not usual.

Lego that is common at most schools. Most DC's Coach whatever the had alwats coached but also run the D.

GoTroyGo1
02-08-2012, 05:26 AM
I just want to see improvement. 6-6 or better in 2012 is my hope. 3-9 is not acceptable at Troy. I hope this bunch can surprise me and get a bowl bid.

Hemi Man
02-08-2012, 05:51 AM
I am surprised too that we haven't yet filled the vacant position left by Mo's dismissal. The concern I have about this is that we are continuing with the "more with less" philosophy, and this is the case, it's gone too far. .

Though I don't think his dismissal was as a result of economics, if the trend of leaving vacated positions unfilled as a cost savings, turns out to be the case here, I would be very disappointed with that direction, both with the University and the Athletic Department.

I'm sure the focus was on recruiting the past few weeks more than hiring a new coach. I'm pretty confident that we will see a new hire in the coming weeks. Probably a linebacker or secondary coach. The opening has been posted as stated in another thread on here.

Troy87
02-08-2012, 07:43 AM
I'm sure the focus was on recruiting the past few weeks more than hiring a new coach. I'm pretty confident that we will see a new hire in the coming weeks. Probably a linebacker or secondary coach. The opening has been posted as stated in another thread on here.

All good points. :thumb:

redwaver
02-08-2012, 09:30 AM
I'm sure the focus was on recruiting the past few weeks more than hiring a new coach. I'm pretty confident that we will see a new hire in the coming weeks. Probably a linebacker or secondary coach. The opening has been posted as stated in another thread on here.
That is probably true but our other SBC schools have seemed to do both very well like at ASU. Maybe they have someone in mind and know there is no rush? My thought was that we may be missing out on a good 'un by dragging our feet or we simply are not going to hire anyone.

Lego
02-08-2012, 10:21 AM
I am surprised too that we haven't yet filled the vacant position left by Mo's dismissal. The concern I have about this is that we are continuing with the "more with less" philosophy, and this is the case, it's gone too far. .

Though I don't think his dismissal was as a result of economics, if the trend of leaving vacated positions unfilled as a cost savings, turns out to be the case here, I would be very disappointed with that direction, both with the University and the Athletic Department.


87 I agree. But I am going to take it further. If Troy U has to do this to keep us in FBS then what some have said may be a better option. Now before I say it let me make it clear i in no way want to go back. But FCS may be a better option if things keep going down this path. I do not want to be a doormat for every team including the Belt. As I see it with a big chunk of our Alumni giving money elsewhere(I have no fact to prove this but it seems like it is the way it is going) and funds are hard to come by to hire a staff worthy enough of "Big Boy" Football I see it as the best option. But for the love of all that is holy I hope I am not right!

Guys, you bring up a very interesting discussion.

As you guys say, maybe Troy just can't compete on this level from a financial side. In all seriousness, this needs to be looked at and studied. No sense in keep digging a deeper hole ? Maybe all the talk about changes and coaches pay is mute, since we could not have any money. (in saying this maybe the Athletic Dept budget will Not allow the Big Boy football everyone wants and since we don't have a B. Pickens or P. Knight...) Does anyone else have any thoughts / insight.

vickyhoo
03-10-2012, 09:38 PM
It is lame


_____

Im still trying to use it, but I don't know if it's working. something like crystal saga (http://anyonlinegames.com/browser-games/crystal-saga.html) is one of my best games.

trojanbrutha
03-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Guys, you bring up a very interesting discussion.

As you guys say, maybe Troy just can't compete on this level from a financial side. In all seriousness, this needs to be looked at and studied. No sense in keep digging a deeper hole ? Maybe all the talk about changes and coaches pay is mute, since we could not have any money. (in saying this maybe the Athletic Dept budget will Not allow the Big Boy football everyone wants and since we don't have a B. Pickens or P. Knight...) Does anyone else have any thoughts / insight.

Milton McGregor is looking to re-open VictoryLand...He donated the first $1,000,000 on the new arena. Let's see if we can help him with another tax write-off :signs018:

ThePowerMan
03-11-2012, 08:10 AM
Before the end of the trial there was discussion on whether MM would remain in jail if he was convicted. Alot of people thought he would be a flight risk if he got out of jail until appeals court ruled. Our very own Chancelor Hawkins spoke out for MM and said MM was a family man and a true icon in our society that would not run if convicted. Of course he also said he believed that MM was innocent. This was on the news. I believe it was some type of records to provide the court if MM was found guilty.

MM will take care of those who had his back!!

trojanbrutha
03-11-2012, 12:58 PM
I bet Bob Riley is still cussin' up a storm right now...Milton paid for an ad about Riley frequenting casinos in Mississippi and we paid for the rest. A lot of jobs were lost behind this and I hope that they can be regained going forward... :signs003: