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View Full Version : How important is TV market size?



trojanchad
12-07-2011, 09:48 AM
I know it's important, but where do you think it ranks along with the overall sports program, facilities, attendance, fans that travel, etc. that conferences look at?

TV market size is not our greatest asset, but our location gives us the Montgomery market and we're very close to the Dothan market. That's not much, but to me it seems better than a bigger market with no interest whatsoever.

I'm not asking because I have illusions that Troy is the next SECACCBigPAC40EastMidwest member, just wondering because our market size is nearly impossible to change. We are located where we are located. No stadium, coach or recruit can change that fact.

Burn the Horse
12-07-2011, 11:16 AM
our market is the thing that hold us back. it is why C-USA is not interested in us, and why we will be long-term members of the Sun Belt Conference.

I'd say we should stop dreaming of moving out of the Belt, and start working on ways to develop and improve the Conference we call home. This has already began, so that is good news. I'm happy in the Sun Belt and since it is taking steps forward I think we'll get more bowl tie-ins and press.

BDM88
12-07-2011, 12:07 PM
The Belt is what it is. But the Big Six will never let it get to be a power house. The Belt will be lucky to get three teams in a bowl game every year. I know most of you like the Belt but be honest there will never be nationwide appeal the demographics will not allow it. Unless one of the Bigger conference folds the Belt has no where to go.

trojanchad
12-07-2011, 12:21 PM
Seems to me it's hard to build the Belt if teams will just leave when given a chance. The Belt is a starter conference. It's better than being independent and having 4 small time or FCS home games.

I'm just thinking back to when I was a student in 97-01. I first heard about in a Scott Farmer class Division 1A, new press tower, stadium upgrades, cool new turf that wasn't like AstroCarpet and the overall excitement. There were doubters then too, but we made the move.

It feels like we could be on the edge of another jump in our program again. We could have just been complacent back then too.

TheStogs
12-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Of course television market size matters, especially in today's sports environment. Troy sits between two relatively small, minor television markets -- Montgomery/Selma #118 and Dothan #172. Even combined, the viewing audience potential is rather small, not counting the dillusion with other sports programming interests (Alabama, Auburn, etc.)

Potential television audience is a major factor in conference reallignment today where in the past, other factors -- what a particular school offers in terms of fan attendance, winning/national prestige, etc. -- had greater weight.

troy4ever21
12-07-2011, 01:59 PM
TROY to the PAC-12! :thumb:

Tums
12-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Troy respectivly draws more eyes than given credit for (see link at Bottom).

NY Times College Sports Blog ( http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/)

trojanchad
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Conference realignment and Troy came up again this morning on Barry McKnight's Sportsline radio show. It's at least the second time this week.

A caller asked something to the effect of "What's going on in Troy's athletic department?" referring to Troy and C-USA. Barry answered with what sounded like a non-statement statement and then gave his personal opinion that the move would be great for Troy and the conference while also throwing in he's happy with the Sun Belt and it would take a lot of money for the move. The negative of market size also came up at the end.

Nothing groundbreaking, but I thought I'd update in case you didn't hear the show.

Burn the Horse
12-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Barry can't make any confirmed statements on the radio, you'll always get "coach speak" when he's confronted with a question requesting official information.

C-USA without the teams who just left is hardly a step up. the ONLY thing that makes it more desireable than the Sun Belt is public perception, which came from tradition built over a period of time. If the Belt sticks together, we too can establish our brand. Look how far we've come in just a decade, we've already surpassed the MAC, which has been playing football at the FBS level for 50 years.

redwaver
12-08-2011, 12:04 PM
barry can't make any confirmed statements on the radio, you'll always get "coach speak" when he's confronted with a question requesting official information.

C-usa without the teams who just left is hardly a step up. The only thing that makes it more desireable than the sun belt is public perception, which came from tradition built over a period of time. If the belt sticks together, we too can establish our brand. Look how far we've come in just a decade, we've already surpassed the mac, which has been playing football at the fbs level for 50 years.
We need to be playing these guys instead of Tennessee, Clemson, Arkansas, LSU, etc., etc.. If we played and beat them then our "stock" as a conference would rise. Granted, it would be less money but there comes a time.........

Burn the Horse
12-08-2011, 12:25 PM
I agree with you redwaver. I'd like to see us play one "body bag" game, one in-state FCS team, and two mid-major programs each season for our OOC schedule.

Hemi Man
12-08-2011, 03:04 PM
We need to be playing these guys instead of Tennessee, Clemson, Arkansas, LSU, etc., etc.. If we played and beat them then our "stock" as a conference would rise. Granted, it would be less money but there comes a time.........


I agree with you redwaver. I'd like to see us play one "body bag" game, one in-state FCS team, and two mid-major programs each season for our OOC schedule.

Good in theory, but the fact of the matter is we need the money games just to keep that athletic department going.

redwaver
12-08-2011, 05:20 PM
Good in theory, but the fact of the matter is we need the money games just to keep that athletic department going.
Well then, something is wrong. We played 3 of those "money games" this year and have done so for at least the last 7-8 years. We pay LB one of the lowest HC salaries in the Belt. Our assistants are at the bottom in salaries. We have one of the lowest scouting budgets in the Belt. Our football facilities, though decent, have fallen behind the majority of the Belt teams. So where is the benefit of the "money games"? I know, we built a gym and improved the Pace-Riddle field. That was needed badly but we are starting to suffer in the football program because lack of funds. This is the program that for all intents and purposes makes the majority of the money for the athletic program. I just think we would get more interest from HS kids if we were 10-2 or 11-1 rather than having to add the three loses to the nations best. I am not sure that recruits had not rather play games that they have a reasonable chance to win than to play against teams where getting plastered is the logical outcome. Troy has done fairly well in some of these money games over the years but getting blown out in the others does not get HS players fired up about coming our way IMO. If we are going to continue to be one of the elite in the Sun Belt we have got to make some financial changes and it needs to be done NOW. We can't be the cheapest university in the conference and maintain that status. It means more Trojan Warriors, more butts in the bleachers and more commitment from the powers that control the purse strings. Sports (especially football) brings notariety to the university and town. It brings in people which means money to businesses but it is WINNING programs that makes these things happen. BSU has done a great job getting their school noticed and they did it by winning almost all their games against lesser foes. They did win some big games and that sure helped but winning is the key. Yes, we need a money game but we also need to think in terms of 10-2, etc. I think we could play the CUSA and still get a decent payday. We have to find a happy/successful medium.

Hemi Man
12-08-2011, 06:26 PM
Well then, something is wrong. We played 3 of those "money games" this year and have done so for at least the last 7-8 years. We pay LB one of the lowest HC salaries in the Belt. Our assistants are at the bottom in salaries. We have one of the lowest scouting budgets in the Belt. Our football facilities, though decent, have fallen behind the majority of the Belt teams. So where is the benefit of the "money games"? I know, we built a gym and improved the Pace-Riddle field. That was needed badly but we are starting to suffer in the football program because lack of funds. This is the program that for all intents and purposes makes the majority of the money for the athletic program. I just think we would get more interest from HS kids if we were 10-2 or 11-1 rather than having to add the three loses to the nations best. I am not sure that recruits had not rather play games that they have a reasonable chance to win than to play against teams where getting plastered is the logical outcome. Troy has done fairly well in some of these money games over the years but getting blown out in the others does not get HS players fired up about coming our way IMO. If we are going to continue to be one of the elite in the Sun Belt we have got to make some financial changes and it needs to be done NOW. We can't be the cheapest university in the conference and maintain that status. It means more Trojan Warriors, more butts in the bleachers and more commitment from the powers that control the purse strings. Sports (especially football) brings notariety to the university and town. It brings in people which means money to businesses but it is WINNING programs that makes these things happen. BSU has done a great job getting their school noticed and they did it by winning almost all their games against lesser foes. They did win some big games and that sure helped but winning is the key. Yes, we need a money game but we also need to think in terms of 10-2, etc. I think we could play the CUSA and still get a decent payday. We have to find a happy/successful medium.

The benefit of money games is being able to operate the athletic department, albeit on a budget, as opposed to having to face massive cutbacks. The goal is to schedule 12 winnable games. Short term goal is similar to ehat you and BTH mentioned above. The 2009-2010 athletic budget for Troy was around 13.3 million. MTSU was around 18 million. Boise St was 25.2 million. There is less of a need for those schools to schedule money games. Therefore their schedules are more conducive to easier schedules and more winnable OOC games. I can't find any data on the current athletic budget at Troy, but Boise St is up to 30.9 million. The bottom line is when we get our annual giving up to the level of MTSU and others in the conference then we will be able to have the facilities we need and the schedule we want.

Burn the Horse
12-08-2011, 07:00 PM
it's a chicken or the egg scenario. winning brings in more fans and money, but ya gotta make money to keep your AD above water.

redwaver
12-08-2011, 08:46 PM
The benefit of money games is being able to operate the athletic department, albeit on a budget, as opposed to having to face massive cutbacks. The goal is to schedule 12 winnable games. Short term goal is similar to ehat you and BTH mentioned above. The 2009-2010 athletic budget for Troy was around 13.3 million. MTSU was around 18 million. Boise St was 25.2 million. There is less of a need for those schools to schedule money games. Therefore their schedules are more conducive to easier schedules and more winnable OOC games. I can't find any data on the current athletic budget at Troy, but Boise St is up to 30.9 million. The bottom line is when we get our annual giving up to the level of MTSU and others in the conference then we will be able to have the facilities we need and the schedule we want.
I sure can't "argue" with that!!!:thumb:

mbolin9
12-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Well then, something is wrong. We played 3 of those "money games" this year and have done so for at least the last 7-8 years. We pay LB one of the lowest HC salaries in the Belt. Our assistants are at the bottom in salaries. We have one of the lowest scouting budgets in the Belt. Our football facilities, though decent, have fallen behind the majority of the Belt teams. So where is the benefit of the "money games"? I know, we built a gym and improved the Pace-Riddle field. That was needed badly but we are starting to suffer in the football program because lack of funds. This is the program that for all intents and purposes makes the majority of the money for the athletic program. I just think we would get more interest from HS kids if we were 10-2 or 11-1 rather than having to add the three loses to the nations best. I am not sure that recruits had not rather play games that they have a reasonable chance to win than to play against teams where getting plastered is the logical outcome. Troy has done fairly well in some of these money games over the years but getting blown out in the others does not get HS players fired up about coming our way IMO. If we are going to continue to be one of the elite in the Sun Belt we have got to make some financial changes and it needs to be done NOW. We can't be the cheapest university in the conference and maintain that status. It means more Trojan Warriors, more butts in the bleachers and more commitment from the powers that control the purse strings. Sports (especially football) brings notariety to the university and town. It brings in people which means money to businesses but it is WINNING programs that makes these things happen. BSU has done a great job getting their school noticed and they did it by winning almost all their games against lesser foes. They did win some big games and that sure helped but winning is the key. Yes, we need a money game but we also need to think in terms of 10-2, etc. I think we could play the CUSA and still get a decent payday. We have to find a happy/successful medium.

Agreed. I do not know the logistics of everything (money, schedules, etc...), BUT as a high school athlete myself, I would much rather see a school beat more teams that are in conferences like C-USA. Did anyone read the article from the NY Times about the geography of college football fans? We are in the heart of it. IMO if we start winning 10-12 games a year, like we are capable of doing, many problems would be solved. Take it for what its worth, (probably not a whole lot coming from a kid who lives in southern Indiana):rollinglaugh:

trojanchad
12-10-2011, 09:08 AM
Story from The Messenger on realignment talk and where Troy fits in:

http://www.troymessenger.com/2011/12/09/sun-belt-conference-“moving-in-right-direction”/

(edited to link to the top of the story and not just my comment :thumb:)

dgoebel
12-10-2011, 09:27 AM
Well then, something is wrong. We played 3 of those "money games" this year and have done so for at least the last 7-8 years. We pay LB one of the lowest HC salaries in the Belt. Our assistants are at the bottom in salaries. We have one of the lowest scouting budgets in the Belt. Our football facilities, though decent, have fallen behind the majority of the Belt teams. So where is the benefit of the "money games"? I know, we built a gym and improved the Pace-Riddle field. That was needed badly but we are starting to suffer in the football program because lack of funds. This is the program that for all intents and purposes makes the majority of the money for the athletic program. I just think we would get more interest from HS kids if we were 10-2 or 11-1 rather than having to add the three loses to the nations best. I am not sure that recruits had not rather play games that they have a reasonable chance to win than to play against teams where getting plastered is the logical outcome. Troy has done fairly well in some of these money games over the years but getting blown out in the others does not get HS players fired up about coming our way IMO. If we are going to continue to be one of the elite in the Sun Belt we have got to make some financial changes and it needs to be done NOW. We can't be the cheapest university in the conference and maintain that status. It means more Trojan Warriors, more butts in the bleachers and more commitment from the powers that control the purse strings. Sports (especially football) brings notariety to the university and town. It brings in people which means money to businesses but it is WINNING programs that makes these things happen. BSU has done a great job getting their school noticed and they did it by winning almost all their games against lesser foes. They did win some big games and that sure helped but winning is the key. Yes, we need a money game but we also need to think in terms of 10-2, etc. I think we could play the CUSA and still get a decent payday. We have to find a happy/successful medium.

Bottom line is we are a DII School playing D1 on a FCS budget and we have had success. However, we are in a conference with schools that have much deeper pockets (ULM being the exception) all have 2 to 5 times the enrollment of us, 2-10 times the number of alumni and are in towns that dwarf Troy (Miami Metro, Metro Nashville, Metro Dallas, even Lafayette and Bowling Green are much, much larger). Troy is at a crossroads right now. How does it continue to be a champion on a shoe string budget? If it is going to take 3 money games a year then Troy has to go through the conference with no loses or 1 loss to get to a bowl every year. I would rather see us play a MAC school or a Duke, Indiana, Memphis, Uconn, UCF game that we can win and add wins to the total. Whether that is feasible?????

mbolin9
12-10-2011, 01:48 PM
Bottom line is we are a DII School playing D1 on a FCS budget and we have had success. However, we are in a conference with schools that have much deeper pockets (ULM being the exception) all have 2 to 5 times the enrollment of us, 2-10 times the number of alumni and are in towns that dwarf Troy (Miami Metro, Metro Nashville, Metro Dallas, even Lafayette and Bowling Green are much, much larger). Troy is at a crossroads right now. How does it continue to be a champion on a shoe string budget? If it is going to take 3 money games a year then Troy has to go through the conference with no loses or 1 loss to get to a bowl every year. I would rather see us play a MAC school or a Duke, Indiana, Memphis, Uconn, UCF game that we can win and add wins to the total. Whether that is feasible?????

I agree with that as well. I think Troy would be better off recruiting and with public perception if we played teams like that. Those are not bad teams and would look good if we beat them. But once again, like dg said, I do not know if it is possible with money and scheduling etc..

TroyFootball05
12-10-2011, 05:14 PM
Troy respectivly draws more eyes than given credit for (see link at Bottom).

NY Times College Sports Blog ( http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/)

Eyes maybe, but not butts in seats. UL cleaned our clock in terms of attendance averaging 29,000 at home. I'd rather have butts than eyes.