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troystfan
08-05-2005, 03:04 PM
PC running wild?

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/bal-ncaa805,1,3183607.story?coll=bal-college-sports

NCAA bans Indian mascots from postseason
Decision affects at least 18 schools with 'abusive' nicknames
By Michael Marot
The Associated Press
Originally published August 5, 2005, 2:21 PM EDT
INDIANAPOLIS -- The NCAA banned the use of American Indian mascots by sports teams during its postseason tournaments, but will not prohibit them otherwise.

The NCAA's executive committee decided this week the organization did not have the authority to bar Indian mascots by individual schools, committee chairman Walter Harrison said Friday.


Nicknames or mascots deemed "hostile or abusive" would not be allowed on team uniforms or other clothing beginning with any NCAA tournament after Feb. 1, said Harrison, the University of Hartford's president.

"What each institution decides to do is really its own business" outside NCAA championship events, Harrison said.

"What we are trying to say is that we find these mascots to be unacceptable for NCAA championship competition," he added.

At least 18 schools have mascots the NCAA deem "hostile or abusive," including Florida State's Seminole and Illinois' Illini. The full list of schools was not immediately released.

Not all schools with Indian-related nicknames are on that list. NCAA officials said some schools using the Warrior nickname do not use Indian symbols and would not be affected.

North Carolina-Pembroke, which uses the nickname Braves, will not face sanctions. NCAA president Myles Brand explained said the school's student body has historically admitted a high percentage of American Indians and more than 20 percent of the students are American Indians.

Schools on the list could still appeal.

"I suspect that some of those would like to having a ruling on that," Brand said. "But unless there is a change before Feb. 1, they will have to abide by it."

Football teams also would not be subjected to the new rules because there is no NCAA tournament or playoff.

Vernon Bellecourt, president of the National Coalition on Racism in Sports and Media, was pleased with the postseason ban but had hoped for even stronger action.

"We would have hoped the NCAA would have provided the moral leadership on this issue, but obviously they've chosen to only go halfway," said Bellecourt, a member of the Anishinabe-Ojibwe Nation in Minnesota.

The NCAA two years ago recommended that schools determine for themselves whether the Indian depictions were offensive.

Florida State, for example, has received permission from the Seminole tribe in Florida to use the nickname. That, however, will not suffice.

"Other Seminole tribes are not supportive," said Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA vice president for diversity and inclusion.

Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years over such concerns were St. John's (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles).

The NCAA plans to ban schools using Indian nicknames from hosting postseason events. Harrison said schools with such mascots that have already been selected as tournament sites would be asked to cover any offensive logos.

Such logos also would be prohibited at postseason games on cheerleader and band uniforms starting in 2008.

Other measures approved this week include stronger penalties for schools that repeatedly fall below the NCAA's new academic cutline. Harrison said schools would receive a warning letter the first year; restrictions on scholarships, recruiting and playing time the second year; and a postseason ban the third year. If a school fails to meet the standard four consecutive years, all teams at that school would be ineligible for postseason play.

"I'd fully expect that we never get to the fourth year," Harrison said. "A school should take stronger action before that. But I think this should send a message that there will be real, serious consequences if you don't."

Schools also would receive a bonus point if a player returns to school to complete his or her degree.

The board also approved a two-year contract extension for Brand. His deal was to run through Dec. 31, 2007 and now includes an indefinite two-year rollover.

tgrad8384
08-06-2005, 09:05 PM
That is absolutely ridiculous. What's next? Hope we don't find any descendants from "Troy" who don't like us abusing their name with our clearly abusive new mascot... :lol:

BMarkey
08-06-2005, 09:18 PM
Florida State, for example, has received permission from the Seminole tribe in Florida to use the nickname. That, however, will not suffice.

What other tribes? I had assumed the Seminoles were a Florida-based tribe. (After some "research," I discovered they originated in many southeast "states".)

http://www.abfla.com/1tocf/seminole/semhistory.html

* STATEMENT FROM FSU PRESIDENT T.K. WETHERELL *

Florida State University is stunned at the complete lack of appreciation for cultural diversity shown by the National Collegiate Athletic Association's executive committee, which announced today a policy banning schools using Native American names and symbols from hosting NCAA championship events. That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole Tribe of Florida as culturally "hostile and abusive" is both outrageous and insulting.

On June 17, the Tribal Council of the Seminole Tribe of Florida spoke unequivocally of its support for Florida State University in its use of the Seminole name and related symbols. Accordingly, I intend to pursue all legal avenues to ensure that this unacceptable decision is overturned, and that this university will forever be associated with the "unconquered" spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida.

National surveys have shown in recent years that an overwhelming majority of Native Americans are not offended by the use of Native American names and symbols. In making its decision, the executive committee has been swayed by a strident minority of activists who claim to speak for all Native Americans. It is unconscionable that the Seminole Tribe of Florida has been ignored.

The rules as we understand them would have us cover the Seminole name and symbol as if we were embarrassed, and any committee that would think that is a proper and respectful treatment of Native Americans should be ashamed.


Florida State University thanks Seminoles for historic vote of support

Florida State University President T.K. Wetherell recently received a resolution supporting FSU's use of the "Seminole" name when he became the first FSU president to be invited to a meeting of the Seminole Tribe of Florida's Tribal Council, the tribe's chief governing body.

The resolution comes amid the National Collegiate Athletics Association's scrutiny of FSU's use of the Seminole name as well as the use of American Indian nicknames by 30 other NCAA member universities.

"We are deeply grateful to the Seminole Tribe of Florida," Wetherell said after receiving the resolution in the meeting at the tribe's Big Cypress Reservation.

"The message I received was clear," Wetherell said. "As the tribe's storied history shows the Florida Seminoles are an unconquered, sovereign and independent people. Florida State is exercising its own independent spirit in suggesting that the NCAA accept an early recommendation of its own committee and leave these decisions to each university."

The Tribal Council's resolution reads, in part, that the "Seminole Tribe of Florida has an established relationship with Florida State University, which includes its permission to use the name, 'Seminole,' as well as various Seminole symbols and images, such as Chief Osceola, for educational purposes and the Seminole Tribe of Florida wishes to go on record that it has not opposed, and, in fact, supports the continued use of the name 'Seminole.'" The resolution also supports the use of the Seminole head logo, which is endorsed by the university.

"That they chose to go on record and formally reaffirm that they trust us to be good stewards of their name and traditions is humbling," Wetherell said. "We will continue to treat those traditions and the Seminole name with honor and respect."

The resolution also invites FSU "to continue their relationship and collaborate on the development of logos and nicknames that all members of the Seminole Tribe of Florida and officials and students of Florida State University can be proud of."

The full resolution reaffirms the Seminole Tribe of Florida's commitment and relationship with Florida State University and calls for that intent to be expressed in a letter to the FSU President's Office.

"I'm very pleased to see this partnership put to paper," said FSU Board of Trustees Chairman Jim Smith. "It reflects what is already in place - a longstanding, honest relationship between the university and the tribe."

Andy Haggard, vice chairman of the FSU Board of Trustees, attended the Tribal Council meeting with Wetherell. "The respect and admiration we have for the Seminole Tribe of Florida is boundless," Haggard said. "This is fitting and proper, and really lays the groundwork for other shared initiatives."

Many traditions are already in place at FSU. A Seminole color guard participates in every commencement ceremony. A Seminole junior princess participates in the Homecoming parade and crowns the Homecoming princess and chief.

FSU administrators also regularly travel to Seminole reservations to recruit students to be "Seminole Scholars." Wetherell established the scholarships, which pay 80 percent of a student's tuition. Because of his efforts, Florida State will have four new Seminole students this fall, the most ever enrolled at one time. They will join four Seminole students currently enrolled. Three other Seminole students are alumni.

But there are other new developments, Wetherell said, including plans for master Seminole builders to construct an authentic chickee (a Seminole-style shelter) at the university's lakeside recreation area known as the "FSU Reservation" in Tallahassee. At the meeting, Wetherell also proposed a new museum on campus, the Center for Seminole Heritage and Culture; and proposed the development of the first tribal charter school.

The Seminole Tribe of Florida has almost 3,000 members living on and off six reservations in Big Cypress, Tampa, Brighton, Immokalee, Fort Pierce and Hollywood.

tsufl
08-08-2005, 09:12 AM
I posted this on the other board and thought I would add it to the discussion here

Actually FSUs logo, mascot and all are all WRONG and in no way resemble any "seminole" tribe or any other indian tribe known to be in Florida. Their logos, Cheif etc. resemble the stereotype of plains indians such as the Sioux.

I understand F$U got the blessing from the Seminole Tribe in Florida to use the name, however with the innacuracy represented by the schools marks and symbols one has to wonder if the tribe is only wanting to be associated with a winner. Seems as though I recall REAL Seminoles being at games in Tally in the past protesting the use of the moniker.
The Seminoles in Oklahoma have issues with the use, also needing to be pointed out is the fact that the Seminoles arent originaly from Florida but rather Oklahoma. I could go on but I shall wait on that.

TroyPremier
08-08-2005, 10:03 AM
Seminoles are not originally from Oklahoma. Some Seminoles actually moved down into Florida as they were forced out of Georgia when it became a colony in the early 1700s. The term Seminoles actually refers to an alliance of several different Florida Native American tribes including the descendants from Georgia. This group was made up of tribes such as Mikasuki, Creek, Yamassee, Yuchi, Oconee and others. The word Seminoles is to the many different Florida Indian tribes as Americans is to the many different cultures we have today in our country. You can read more if you're really bored at this link.

http://www.keyshistory.org/seminolespage1.html

GO TROY!!

tsufl
08-08-2005, 10:53 AM
Point is...
They dont look like the indian represented in their logos and their Cheif.
Also, is there any proof they rode horses? I cant find any documents where it states they used horses for transportation or battle. (another stereotype of the Plains indians.

TroyPremier
08-08-2005, 12:47 PM
tsufl.....

Do I sense some emotions of hatred for FSU? :lol:

You just seem so passionate about this. It's a good thing you're a Troy fan or you might be talking about how our logo used to look like a spartan instead of a trojan. j/k.

GO TROY!!

tsufl
08-08-2005, 04:08 PM
just stating the facts.

littlebittyschool
08-08-2005, 06:07 PM
How long before people of Irish decent jump on Notre Dame? That drunken little violent Irish guy they have as a mascot seems pretty offensive to me! Where are all of the Christians protesting the Demon Deacons, the Blue Devils, and the Sun Devils? Where are all the pagans protesting the Providence Friars and the San Fransisco Dons? Surely, the PETA people can't be happy with all of the animal mascots running around. I bet there are Viking, and Trojan, and Raider descedents who don't like being mis-represented.

Where does it all end folks? How much longer will the tail wag the dog in this country? People need to get jobs and quit worrying about this crap. When civilization is at it's breaking point, we'll all be able to look back and trace it to Political Correctness.

"We're not gonna protest!"
"We're not gonna protest!"
"Gutter is a tool!"
"We're not gonna protest!"

TSUfaninCALI
08-08-2005, 11:40 PM
I think that FSU should change their names to the Fighting Crackers! Have a fat drunk white guy with no shirt ride out on a horse a with flaming beer can on a stick and fall of the horse sticking the can into the field.

cville
08-09-2005, 07:47 AM
FSU does have the blessing of the Seminole Trible of Florida, as a matter of fact the tribe gets part of the revenue from the sale of FSU merchandise that has the indian logo.

FSU has made no secret that they plan to fight this ruling in court. FSU will probably win. If FSU does win, the NCAA will have them on probation within 5 years. Remember Alabama, Miami, Notre Dame, and Auburn took the NCAA to court in the mid 80's to get rid of the TV rules. They won in court and formed the College Football Association (CFA). But what else do these schools have in common? All were on probation by the mid 90's. FSU, ASU, etc. will be in the same boat.

By the way, I live near Tallahassee and really dislike FSU. I hope the loss every game they play.

Just my thoughts,

cville