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TroyTrojanNYC
05-10-2009, 10:10 AM
I saw this on FIUGoldenPanthers.com message board. This would be a really bad thing for FIU and from the comments on the thread, most of them feel the same way but few seem ready to try and find any REAL solutions. Not only would it be bad for FIU, but if it happens, the SunBelt would be the only conference to have a D1 university with NO band. Ugh!

Our Trojan Nation is so fortunate to have the Sound of the South, and the support they receive from the members of this board (and the Trojan Nation in general) is amazing. This just shows (again) how TROY is the class of the SunBelt and how well we support everything TROY.

I'll feel badly for FIU if this happens. Seems they are making a lot of progress SunBelt-wise and this would definitely be a bad stain for them.


Golden Panther Band at risk after six years of service
The Beacon by Jorge Valens / Asst. News Director
Published April 09, 2009 at 01:04 AM

After six years of existence, FIU’s Golden Panther Marching Band faces elimination in the shadow of massive budget cuts.

On March 24, a public forum was held in an empty sound hall at the School of Music in order for students and band members to emphasize the importance of the band and to voice their opinions on how the band can be spared.

According to Carla Geiger, FIU Athletic Bands’ director, the College of Architecture and The Arts, also known as CARTA, currently funds 65 percent of the band; the remainder is split between Student Government Association and the Athletics Department, each funding 21 percent and 14 percent respectively.

With budget cuts on the way for the next fiscal year, CARTA may not be able to fund the band any longer and SGA has been talking about cutting funding to the band altogether.

“We do not have the $237,000 that was our share of the cost of the band,” said former CARTA dean, Juan Bueno. “We don’t have that in the budget and we are about to lose another $800,000 now.”

He said that these cuts are not only unavoidable, but are also complimentary to the budget cuts the school faced last year.

In addition, Athletics stated that they have never funded the band.

“We neither fund the band nor does it report to us. And we also have difficult and possibly unpopular decisions ahead with more than $1 million in budget cuts of our own looming,” said Richard Kelch, Athletics’ director of media relations, in a written statement to Student Media.

SGA, which has funded the marching band every year, discussed eliminating SGA funding for the band at a recent budget allocation meeting because the band is comprised of a large portion of musicians who are not FIU students.

Outgoing Student Government Council at University Park President Arthur J. Meyer voiced SGA’s commitment to funding the marching band should all other parties continue to be involved.

“We are, as SGA, committed to full funding the marching band at what we’ve previously funded it, if there is a verbal and written commitment from the Athletics Department [and] from the University and/or college that they will provide the additional funding necessary to have a marching band,” Meyer said.

However, Anthony Rionda, SGC-UP president-elect highlighted the issue of the marching band consisting of many non-FIU students as a concern, during the March 24 forum.

“That’s just an additional point of how much student funding should go to a band in that 50 percent, more or less, are not full FIU students.

That is a point of concern to a lot of people,” Rionda said.

According to an e-mail to Student Media by Geiger, “During the 2008-09 season, the band consisted of 70 members. Of those 70, 36 were currently enrolled FIU students – that number includes four [Miami-Dade College] transient students registered for the class – and 34 were not.”

She said that since she was charged with heading the marching band, she had raised the percentage of enrolled students to 51 percent, with the ultimate goal of 100 percent within the next year.

Bueno noted that he had been unable to arrange a meeting with Athletics.

“We scheduled a meeting, it did not happen,” he said. “We did our half.”

Before ending the forum, Bueno and Rionda both suggested that students should continue to meet with decision makers and to not give up hope.

Since the forum, band members have continued to fight for their program by circulating a petition and by holding a demonstration at the Graham Center fountain.

Currently, the petition has accumulated more than 2,000 signatures and has been submitted to President Modesto A. Maidique for consideration.

“If the marching band is eliminated, [FIU] will be the only Division I university in the country without a marching band, or an athletics band for that matter,” said Ernesto Fernandez, FIU band drum major and incoming president of Kappa Kappa Si, a national fraternity for college bands.

Students at the demonstration voiced their concerns as they signed the petition in favor of keeping the band.

“It’s horrible, it feels like half of our spirit is taken away,” said FIU Dazzler Lauren Perez, “[Athletic bands] bring something extra, other than just watching the game.”

The FIU athletic bands were conceived after the creation of the FIU football team in 1999, and were called to attention for the first time on August 29, 2002. Since its inception, the band has expanded to perform not only at football games, but basketball and volleyball games as well. The band also provides live music for events such as Trail of the Torch, Commencement and makes a regular appearance at the nationally televised Martin Luther King, Jr. Day Parade.

http://fiugoldenpanthers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=968

BMarkey
05-10-2009, 04:59 PM
This is sad and because Florida has drastically cut college budgets.

FAU has been discussing this matter. In fact, the FAU band might not go to the Shula Bowl game between FAU and FIU at FIU this year if FIU does not have a band in its home stadium.

http://fauowlsnest.com/board/index.php?topic=7451.0

and

http://fauowlsnest.com/board/index.php?topic=7436.0

I suppose the thought is not to insult the Panthers by bringing in another band. I say "baloney" and bring the band. The fans (and opposing teams) can make the games more lively, even if FIU chooses not to do that.

I was at the Virginia-Troy game a few years ago when UVA had no band. Boring!

I certainly hope Troy brings at least its "pep" band to Miami, as it did at Troy last year and Miami in 2007 and '05 (or was it '06?).

ThePowerMan
05-10-2009, 05:07 PM
It is a good thing that Florida passes the Lottery a few years ago so things like this would not happen. THe Lottery will save everythi............hey, wait a minute. Did you say that FIU was having budget cuts. Certainly NOT possible. There is no way. I read each week where the lottery is still going. Has FIU (or the Florida government) been spending their money playing the lottery and lost?

BMarkey
05-10-2009, 05:12 PM
The Lottery profits go mainly to public education below the college level. It appears colleges and universities receive around 25 percent of the proceeds. I think the Legislature underfunds the schools because they receive Lottery money!

----------------------------------------------------------------

MORE THAN $19 BILLION TO EDUCATION!

The Florida Lottery's mission is to maximize revenues for the enhancement of public education in Florida. With this focus, the Florida Lottery has not only kept its promise as a committed partner in education, but has also operated as a distinguished and outstanding business enterprise.

http://www.floridalottery.com/inet/Images/jpegs/edu_eetf_fy07-09.jpg

In fiscal year 2007-2008, the Florida Lottery transferred $1.28 billion to the Educational Enhancement Trust Fund. For the sixth time in the Florida Lottery's 20-year history the agency surpassed the billion-dollar mark in a single year. Currently, the Lottery's total contribution since start-up is more than $19 billion. Although that size contribution is only a small part of the state's overall education budget, the impact of the Florida Lottery on public education flows from community to community.
In this section of the Florida Lottery Web site, you can find information about Lottery-funded Bright Futures Scholarships, education contributions by the Florida Lottery in your county, school construction projects, and additional support by the Florida Lottery including education sponsored events and the Florida Mentoring Partnership.

http://www.floridalottery.com/inet/educationDollarToEducation.do

TennesseeBoyintheRockies
05-10-2009, 11:45 PM
This is sad and because Florida has drastically cut college budgets.

And unfortunately this is not an epidemic that is plaguing just one state or one region.

Budget cuts may force the University of New Orleans to drop out of Division 1 altogether with it's athletics.

Here at Adams State College (soon to be Adams State University), we are looking at tuition increases by 38% starting this fall. The college board of trustees approved the name change (which my degrees will bear) in order to be granted more funding. The extra money simply by the name change is informative of the mission of the college to grow and bring in more students in which more money would be needed.

I don't think many people realize how critical a name change can be and the positives (primarily financially) that come with it.

All the Colorado colleges are facing the same crises that are being seen elsewhere and I'm not sure we are the only DII school or RMAC school looking to change its name simply to try to alleviate the pressure brought on by these hard economic times that has been the instigator of these wide-spread college budget cuts.

It is always sad that when money becomes an issue, the top three programs that are hit the hardest and most frequently sacrificed are physical education/athletics, music, and art. This is also true in K-12 schools.

SOTS_tuba
05-11-2009, 01:31 AM
I certainly hope Troy brings at least its "pep" band to Miami, as it did at Troy last year and Miami in 2007 and '05 (or was it '06?).

As it stands now the only game that some portion of the band wont be at will be Arkansas.

Hector
05-13-2009, 09:47 AM
Part of the problem with the FIU situation is that they have no kind of band traditional (like the SOTS does). Therefore, there is not the big public outcry when it is suggested that the band be cut. Let's face facts - the band is not high at all on FIU's list of priorities. Sad, but true.

JPSousa1898
05-14-2009, 11:34 PM
Agreed... where a tradition of excellence lives, so do expectations of excellence... what would people say if the SOTS suddenly had 100 members, sounded like a high school band, and didn't play the Fanfare? The Alumni and many fans would REVOLT! The expectation has been set that the SOTS sets the curve for college band and that they will be SIZZLING good since 1965 when Dr. Long marched that dedicated band of TSC Red Wave Band he nicknamed the Sound of the South onto the field and they've been living up to that name since that day.

With all that being said.... BLOW SOTS!!!!

OwlFamily
06-24-2009, 11:40 AM
Thought Id give you guys an update....

http://www.justnews.com/news/19844267/detail.html?treets=mia&tml=mia_12pm&ts=T&tmi=mia_12pm_1_11000206242009

Florida International University Games Will Be More Quiet Next Season

POSTED: Wednesday, June 24, 2009
UPDATED: 10:59 am EDT June 24, 2009

WEST MIAMI-DADE, Fla. -- There will be no marching band or cheerleaders at Florida International University football games this coming season. FIU is no longer funding the band or cheerleaders.

The university blamed the economy for the cuts. It reportedly costs more than $200,000 to fund the band and $25,000 to maintain a cheerleading program.

FIU's dance team, the Golden Dazzlers, will stay.

The cuts come after FIU spent millions on a new stadium for the football team, and hired high-profile basketball coach Isiah Thomas.
__________________________________________-

Not good news and Im sorry that FIU's atmosphere will suffer.

(Never thought those words would leave my mouth.)

TroyTrojanNYC
06-24-2009, 11:51 AM
Bad news for FIU and bad news for the SunBelt. Now we'll be the only conference with a D1 football program with no marching band and no cheerleaders.

Hate this for FIU - especially as their football team makes strides and gains more respectability.

A real shame.

CHughes1102
06-24-2009, 12:46 PM
Bad news for FIU and bad news for the SunBelt. Now we'll be the only conference with a D1 football program with no marching band and no cheerleaders.

Hate this for FIU - especially as their football team makes strides and gains more respectability.

A real shame.

I dont believe that this will stop their progress. If they have a good coach who can continue to raise the program and recruit then I really can't see much of a drop off. Remember I would rather win and not have any band or cheerleaders than to lose and have them.

sotsclarinet08
06-24-2009, 12:51 PM
I dont believe that this will stop their progress. If they have a good coach who can continue to raise the program and recruit then I really can't see much of a drop off. Remember I would rather win and not have any band or cheerleaders than to lose and have them.

Yes but Troy Football wouldn't be Troy Football without the Sound of the South. I know their a new team and all but I'm sure they're sad to see their band go... Can't have college or high school football without the band, sorry! lol

Mike Cunningham
06-24-2009, 01:14 PM
While I have no love lost for any other conference team, this sucks for them.

As a recruiting football coach, my number one line to any prospect considering FIU would be, "They don't even have a band! They cut the band! What's next trainers?! Helmets?! Good grief, why would you want to go there?"

JPSousa1898
06-24-2009, 01:15 PM
Yes but Troy Football wouldn't be Troy Football without the Sound of the South. I know their a new team and all but I'm sure they're sad to see their band go... Can't have college or high school football without the band, sorry! lol

I can speak from experience, you CAN have HS football without band, but the games are horribly boring. There are many schools in NE AL without band programs and being the only band in the stadium playing against a CD player is quite boring.

RDA Trojan
06-25-2009, 02:54 PM
The cuts come after FIU spent millions on a new stadium for the football team, and hired high-profile basketball coach Isiah Thomas.


Wasn't he supposed to be donating his salary back to FIU? If so, wouldn't that help fund the band and cheerleaders?

TroyTrojanNYC
06-25-2009, 05:28 PM
I dont believe that this will stop their progress. If they have a good coach who can continue to raise the program and recruit then I really can't see much of a drop off. Remember I would rather win and not have any band or cheerleaders than to lose and have them.


Obviously I didn't infer or imply that the demise of the FIU Band would have an impact on the progress of their football team. It IS a black eye for FIU as a D1 University to have NO BAND and NO CHEERLEADERS, and my inference was that it is not a good thing given all the progress the university has been making, especially as it relates to its standing in the SunBelt conference. The lack of a band and cheerleaders won't have a huge impact on the performance of the team, but it's bad for the "game environment" and definitely not something ANYONE supporting ANY university would say is a good thing.

And as some of our illustrious Sound members have pointed out already, Troy football would NOT be Troy football without the Sound of the South. The Sound has enjoyed a national reputation for excellence "LONG" before Troy football started receiving the national attention it gets today. The two organizations together form one helluva dynamic environment in MGVS, and there's no way Blakeney would allow the SOTS not to be a "player" on his team (and vice versa)!

CHughes1102
06-26-2009, 09:59 AM
Obviously I didn't infer or imply that the demise of the FIU Band would have an impact on the progress of their football team. It IS a black eye for FIU as a D1 University to have NO BAND and NO CHEERLEADERS, and my inference was that it is not a good thing given all the progress the university has been making, especially as it relates to its standing in the SunBelt conference. The lack of a band and cheerleaders won't have a huge impact on the performance of the team, but it's bad for the "game environment" and definitely not something ANYONE supporting ANY university would say is a good thing.

And as some of our illustrious Sound members have pointed out already, Troy football would NOT be Troy football without the Sound of the South. The Sound has enjoyed a national reputation for excellence "LONG" before Troy football started receiving the national attention it gets today. The two organizations together form one helluva dynamic environment in MGVS, and there's no way Blakeney would allow the SOTS not to be a "player" on his team (and vice versa)!

After thinking it over for a little bit I am going to have to agree. At first I thought that it would not matter much, but getting rid of those 2 "major" roles in the game are going to be pretty big. Just simple things will be changed like pre game tailgating or any little thing like that. A lot easier for teams to steal away recruits from down there.

I still stick by my statement though that even though it will be a damper on them, it will not kill them. I think they have too good of a coach to allow that to happen. I like FIU...they try hard not to be like the other ganster teams from down there.

Texas Trojan
08-27-2009, 10:09 PM
This was their back page commentary "Point After" a week or two ago.

"Tuning out the Band" By Selena Roberts. Pull quote was:

"What does a budding Division 1-A program have to do to live the high life? The answer at Florida International: Dump the muses with tubas."

Can you imaging a Troy game without the Sound?

Sheer heresy.

JPSousa1898
08-28-2009, 01:32 AM
Heads would roll.... Heads would roll....

ntvinh986
10-09-2009, 02:57 AM
This is sad and because Florida has drastically cut college budgets.

FAU has been discussing this matter. In fact, the FAU band might not go to the Shula Bowl game between FAU and FIU at FIU this year if FIU does not have a band in its home stadium.

http://fauowlsnest.com/board/index.php?topic=7451.0

and

http://fauowlsnest.com/board/index.php?topic=7436.0

I suppose the thought is not to insult the Panthers by bringing in another band. I say "baloney" and bring the band. The fans (and opposing teams) can make the games more lively, even if FIU chooses not to do that.

I was at the Virginia-Troy game a few years ago when UVA had no band. Boring!

I certainly hope Troy brings at least its "pep" band to Miami, as it did at Troy last year and Miami in 2007 and '05 (or was it '06?).

Thanks you for the post.

Troy_Nomad
10-09-2009, 09:23 AM
Good grief. some of you act like the whole reason we have football games is so marching bands can perform at halftime. As long as there is a stadium, refs, and kids who want to play, there will be football. I like bands too and think they add to the environment, but they're not the main attraction (for most people). I do hate this for FIU though.

BMarkey
10-09-2009, 11:02 AM
A college football game without a live marching band is not the same. Sorry, but many of us feel that way.

NWFLTrojan
10-09-2009, 01:04 PM
A college football game without a live marching band is not the same.


I agree.

Somewhat on that point, Can someone tell the scoreboard operator to stop playing music over the SOTS after each score, at kick off, etc. I would rather hear the fight song after a score, would rather hear the drums in the endzone before the opening kick off than hearing anything they play over the loud speaker.

I have no objection to music being played over the loudspeaker during the television breaks or during other lulls in the action, but please make sure the SOTS is not already playing something.

troy4ever21
10-09-2009, 02:30 PM
i agree.

Somewhat on that point, can someone tell the scoreboard operator to stop playing music over the sots after each score, at kick off, etc. I would rather hear the fight song after a score, would rather hear the drums in the endzone before the opening kick off than hearing anything they play over the loud speaker.

I have no objection to music being played over the loudspeaker during the television breaks or during other lulls in the action, but please make sure the sots is not already playing something.

+1

JPSousa1898
10-10-2009, 03:05 AM
+1

TrojanEmpire
10-10-2009, 08:45 AM
good grief. Some of you act like the whole reason we have football games is so marching bands can perform at halftime. As long as there is a stadium, refs, and kids who want to play, there will be football. I like bands too and think they add to the environment, but they're not the main attraction (for most people). I do hate this for fiu though.

+ 1

TroyTuba
10-10-2009, 01:03 PM
Agreed, don't understand why they have been playing something right away every time we score.....you know the SOTS is gonna play the fight song, stop pressing the play button on the CD player!!!!!!!

TrojanWarrior418
10-10-2009, 04:30 PM
I can understand having a tape on stand by when the band can't play while either getting into or getting out of the stands, but for the PA to blast music while the Sound of the South is trying to play is just downright disrespectful. Our fight song is Trojans One and All not Jump Around. I hope someone brings this to the attention to the powers that be and this is addressed.

the SOTS is just as much a part of the Univerisity and game everybit as the football team is.

TroyTrojanNYC
10-10-2009, 04:46 PM
And while we're griping and moaning about it - even IF the sound system is used after a score when the SOTS is in transit to or from the field - they should play a recording of TROJANS ONE AND ALL - not some other stupid "every other stadium plays it" song. OUR FIGHT SONG SHOULD BE PLAYED AFTER THE SCORE - whether it be by the live SOTS, or a recorded SOTS. What's so hard about that??????? The fans EXPECT and WANT the fight song - why not give it to them?

trojanbrutha
10-10-2009, 04:47 PM
I can understand having a tape on stand by when the band can't play while either getting into or getting out of the stands, but for the PA to blast music while the Sound of the South is trying to play is just downright disrespectful. Our fight song is Trojans One and All not Jump Around. I hope someone brings this to the attention to the powers that be and this is addressed.

the SOTS is just as much a part of the Univerisity and game everybit as the football team is.

I'm willing to bet that there are more football players that can do what the SoTS does than vice versa...all these gripes and moans can be easily directed to POCs...make sure to send them to the right people. This is not meant for one person, but the collective few that are starting to complain about everything...clothes, band, PA...etc. The football team is on a 3 game winning streak and there are complaints. When we dropped 2 games to start the season, guess what? Complaints...you can't please everybody...all the time...Enjoy the winning, it could be worse...

EDIT:

If there are some that want the dress code to include blazers or sport coats, why not start a fundraiser and donate said proceeds? Be constructive, not destructive...

TroyTrojanNYC
10-10-2009, 04:51 PM
I'm willing to bet that there are more football players that can do what the SoTS does than vice versa...all these gripes and moans can be easily directed to POCs...make sure to send them to the right people. This is not meant for one person, but the collective few that are starting to complain about everything...clothes, band, PA...etc. The football team is on a 3 game winning streak and there are complaints. When we dropped 2 games to start the season, guess what? Complaints...you can't please everybody...all the time...Enjoy the winning, it could be worse...

TrojanBrutha - I respect your position HOWEVER, I don't see it as complaining so much as valid attempts to spotlight activities and/or "things" that seem to be "out-of-synch" with our desire to be the BEST Troy can be. I doubt you (or anyone else here) would complain if the things we've discussed the past few days were either corrected or implemented. Personally I think we're all PLEASED that the ship seems to have righted itself and we all give credit to the players and coaches - but it doesn't mean our environment can't improve in other areas as well.

JPSousa1898
10-10-2009, 10:26 PM
TrojanBrutha - I respect your position HOWEVER, I don't see it as complaining so much as valid attempts to spotlight activities and/or "things" that seem to be "out-of-synch" with our desire to be the BEST Troy can be. I doubt you (or anyone else here) would complain if the things we've discussed the past few days were either corrected or implemented. Personally I think we're all PLEASED that the ship seems to have righted itself and we all give credit to the players and coaches - but it doesn't mean our environment can't improve in other areas as well.

Well said brother!

Brutha, I have to agree with NYC. The SOTS works hard and has built up a reputation that is 45 years in the making. It seems like a slam to want to drown them out with some "canned" music. Troy has a very unique situation when it comes to a college marching band and music program, to be "like everyone else", to me is laziness and disrespectful as well. Studies have shown that members of the marching band work their respiratory systems just as hard as any top-tier, first-string, athlete for a more extended period. The band may not have to lift weights, but the football team also doesn't have to involve nearly as many of the cognitive and physical systems at the same time as a marching musician. It's not fair to say that either is not active or working hard, because both are pushing themselves in different ways. We've hashed this out on the thread before, and I don't want to start this up again, but I did want to clear up any logical missteps that might have been taken in any argument presented. That being said, there are few colleges in the FBS that can boast a band as good as ours and a team as good as ours at the same time. We should be proud of that fact.

trojanbrutha
10-10-2009, 10:37 PM
Well said brother!

Brutha, I have to agree with NYC. The SOTS works hard and has built up a reputation that is 45 years in the making. It seems like a slam to want to drown them out with some "canned" music. Troy has a very unique situation when it comes to a college marching band and music program, to be "like everyone else", to me is laziness and disrespectful as well. Studies have shown that members of the marching band work their respiratory systems just as hard as any top-tier, first-string, athlete for a more extended period. The band may not have to lift weights, but the football team also doesn't have to involve nearly as many of the cognitive and physical systems at the same time as a marching musician. It's not fair to say that either is not active or working hard, because both are pushing themselves in different ways. We've hashed this out on the thread before, and I don't want to start this up again, but I did want to clear up any logical missteps that might have been taken in any argument presented. That being said, there are few colleges in the FBS that can boast a band as good as ours and a team as good as ours at the same time. We should be proud of that fact.

I can promise you, you don't have to sell me on the pros/cons...the in/outs...I've been on both sides of the argument, albeit from high school. I started playing in the band in the 5th grade, marching in parades in the 6th, and marching with GHS band in middle school. Started playing football in the 10th. You have loyalty towards the band and it's commendable, but we're talking apples and oranges...no real comparison to be made here...

TroyTrojanNYC
10-11-2009, 09:04 AM
we're talking apples and oranges...no real comparison to be made here...

The only REAL comparison that matters is that both groups encompass hundreds of student athletes and student musicians who are dedicated to their respective crafts, and CHOOSE to participate in these extra-curricular activities. The athletes and musicians work many long hours to perfect their "performances" and provide a "product" that represents our University in a superior manner. I salute ALL of them and appreciate the efforts that go into the games and the shows. I know we ALL do.

Troy Football + The Sound of the South = An Unbeatable Combination regardless of the scoreboard on any individual date.

TROJANS ONE AND ALL!

trojanbrutha
10-11-2009, 11:24 AM
The only REAL comparison that matters is that both groups encompass hundreds of student athletes and student musicians who are dedicated to their respective crafts, and CHOOSE to participate in these extra-curricular activities. The athletes and musicians work many long hours to perfect their "performances" and provide a "product" that represents our University in a superior manner. I salute ALL of them and appreciate the efforts that go into the games and the shows. I know we ALL do.

Troy Football + The Sound of the South = An Unbeatable Combination regardless of the scoreboard on any individual date.

TROJANS ONE AND ALL!

I said what I meant, apples and oranges. I question not anyone's dedication to their respctive craft, but it takes differing skills and abilities. Can you actually make a valid comparison to a starting LB and a 1st chair trumpet player?

TroyTrojanNYC
10-11-2009, 02:10 PM
Can you actually make a valid comparison to a starting LB and a 1st chair trumpet player?

If you are strictly speaking about *physical* comparison - probably not. But if you are talking about dedication, persistence, mental skill, eye/hand/brain coordination, discipline, ability to learn, ability to execute, leadership, will to excel, ability to perform as an individual AND as part of a team --- ABSOLUTELY I CAN.

NO ONE is trying to argue apples and oranges (i.e., a football jock vs a musician), but it is equally ignorant to minimize the skills of one vs the skills of another. That SEEMS to be what you were doing when you said ... "there are more football players that can do what the SoTS does than vice versa." I, for one, don't agree with that point at all. MAYBE on a middle school or 1A high school level, but certainly NOT on the university level and definitely NOT on the level of the SOTS.

trojanbrutha
10-11-2009, 02:17 PM
If you are strictly speaking about *physical* comparison - probably not. But if you are talking about dedication, persistence, mental skill, eye/hand/brain coordination, discipline, ability to learn, ability to execute, leadership, will to excel, ability to perform as an individual AND as part of a team --- ABSOLUTELY I CAN.

NO ONE is trying to argue apples and oranges (i.e., a football jock vs a musician), but it is equally ignorant to minimize the skills of one vs the skills of another. That SEEMS to be what you were doing when you said ... "there are more football players that can do what the SoTS does than vice versa." I, for one, don't agree with that point at all. MAYBE on a middle school or 1A high school level, but certainly NOT on the university level and definitely NOT on the level of the SOTS.

Okay...if apples and oranges are not your speed...peaches and pears :thumb:

TroyTrojanNYC
10-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Okay...if apples and oranges are not your speed...peaches and pears :thumb:

Mangos and Kiwi -- i really like that island fruit! :jester: